[Imihooniump]

i found this on google.

http://offthechain2006.webs.com/bloodlinehistory.htm

[lalffibra]

if you want to believe it

[Plokiikmol]

if you want to believe it

That pretty much sums it up.

It is what it is. Many owners of those dogs want to believe their 100 lb "pit bulls" magically came about in the span of a year from 40 lb gamebred pit dogs. Mostly because they want a certain look but cannot break away from the name "pit bull" or "American Pit Bull Terrier" because it just sounds too cool.

I personally believe a lot of cross-breeding and helluva lot more paper-hanging went into those dogs than anyone can ever imagine.

[lalffibra]

look at it this way,dave wilson claims that all he did was mix apbt's and amstaffs together.Alot of people want to claim that the amstaff is still a pit bull many years after they were split from the working dogs and bred for looks.Well if that is the case and dave only bred these two breeds together,wouldn't you say that there wouldn't be much of a change if any? Wouldnt the dogs remain at the same standard weight not exceeding 70 pounds? obviously if they were the same breed,their weight would not exceed the standard weight,their body style would not change much,unlike these overweight,over sized,under sized mutts we see today.
So,this pretty much tells me when i see these dogs,razors edge,gottiline and all of the other posers ,that i am correct that they have mixed other breeds in,and its so obvious to see,a blind man can tell them apart.

[gusecrync]

When Gotty was 7 months he sired his first litter.

Sounds like marketing BS to me. Who breeds their "foundation dog" before 1 year of age? Puppy peddlers.
If you want to make as much money as possible off your dogs, they need an impressive sounding 'history" behind them.

[VINPELA]

Good for him, when I was 13 I could have had my first litter too! Doubt I could have sold for very much though.

[CxofxJFm]

Mostly because they want a certain look but cannot break away from the name "pit bull" or "American Pit Bull Terrier" because it just sounds too cool.

American Bully Sounds cooler

---------- Post added at 11:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 AM ----------

Wait, aren't ALL dogs "Mutts" until they are recognized as a Breed?

The AmStaff & APBT started off as the same Dog, BUT they have different "Looks" to them now. So was it the AmStaff that had other dogs mixed in or was it the APBT???

HOW was the APBT "Perfected"? WHat technique was used when these dogs first came to America that "perfected" the Breed into the APBT?

[hHwJ229h]

American Bully Sounds cooler

---------- Post added at 11:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 AM ----------

Wait, aren't ALL dogs "Mutts" until they are recognized as a Breed?

The AmStaff & APBT started off as the same Dog, BUT they have different "Looks" to them now. So was it the AmStaff that had other dogs mixed in or was it the APBT???

HOW was the APBT "Perfected"? WHat technique was used when these dogs first came to America that "perfected" the Breed into the APBT?

Looking at AmStaffs and APBTs now, and photos from years ago, I'm of the opinion that AmStaffs had something mixed in, papers hung, whatever.

APBTs, although they have many different looks, colors and builds, are still almost the same (25-70 lbs, short coated muscular dog). Although you do get your occasional giant dogs from a litter (maybe these were thrown into the AmStaff gene pool, who knows) who are 80-100 lbs, most real APBTs (from reputable breeders, not morons that is) are in the standard weight range.

[Alexunda]

APBT and Amstaff were split, what? 70 years ago? They have different purposes as breeds, and 70 years is CERTAINLY enough time for eugenics to change, making them still closely related, yet different breeds none the less. I'd love to see someone go eugenics markers on them to see if they really can be called separate breeds. Any canine geneticists in the house?

[8IhGpvH0]

Yes APBT and AST are closely related as long as the AST doesn't have any of the new fad bully blood in their viens. But I believe they are now separate breeds distinguishable by looks and function! Function being that true APBT's are still being bred for a trait that AST breeders stopped breeding for 70+ years ago.
So to me is obvious that they wouldn't need to be genetically tested to be two separate breeds!
But it would be interesting if they could isolate the gene for gameness and compare the two breeds based on the gene.

---------- Post added at 05:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:34 PM ----------

When it comes to the Razors edge dogs, they are what they are! Don't matter what they used to be! That was then this is now! some people call them Bullys, some call them mut's or blue hippo's. It don't matter to me as long as they don't call them American Pitbull Terriers! I think thats really the only problem that true APBT owners and breeders have with these dogs and owners, calling them something that they are NOT!

[Andrew1978]

Well it all depends on the RE blood. For example, the old school RE dogs, such as throwin knuckles, consisted of nothing but apbt and amstaff blood. However, overtime, people added other breeds.

[Penisvergroesserung]

Yes you have to understand people went out and add their own blood with what dave created. When I heard Dave 2hr pod cast he reflected on his line of dog in his possesion not what other byb's mix with what he created off of knuckles,Cairo, buckshot etc etc. He bought Papered show quality AST and great Game dogs. Depends on what you want, go with what make you happy not with what makes other people happy. The whole name stigma that is attached to APBT and Pitbull is something I can do with out but will have to deal with it.

American Bully is where its at for me in 2010. Just a side note, some of those apbt form yesterday look nothing like what we have today. I believe any can look at a dog and say "hey that dont look like a ast or apbt" and do the whole "your papers are hung lol" Im sure that exist through out many breeds even though its wrong..

[Andrew1978]

Yes you have to understand people went out and add their own blood with what dave created. When I heard Dave 2hr pod cast he reflected on his line of dog in his possesion not what other byb's mix with what he created off of knuckles,Cairo, buckshot etc etc. He bought Papered show quality AST and great Game dogs. Depends on what you want, go with what make you happy not with what makes other people happy. The whole name stigma that is attached to APBT and Pitbull is something I can do with out but will have to deal with it.

American Bully is where its at for me in 2010. Just a side note, some of those apbt form yesterday look nothing like what we have today. I believe any can look at a dog and say "hey that dont look like a ast or apbt" and do the whole "your papers are hung lol" Im sure that exist through out many breeds even though its wrong..

If I am to get an apbt, it would probably be straight out of Dave Wilson's yard where his stock still consists of apbt/amstaff/ mystery breed. Dave has mentioned that he noticed a dog that had a squarish head of a particular breed and size that he used to finish his breeds physical characteristics. I know that the grapevine and watchdog bloodline is what he utilized on his amstaff line and were the two lines that he looked for to bring in the desired finishing looks towards his dogs. However, they still weren't "bully" and thus, this mystery breed was added.