[gennnniiikk]

Yes I think taking dogs especially pit bulls off leash anywhere,apart from your garden or antartica, is bad. I think taking them to pet stores where there are other dogs is wrong even if they are leashed.

[Sdinozes]

(btw - just to clear it up.. I am not upset with anyone, I just want to understand why its ok and not ok in certain places)

Public display = bad, it sets the main stage for failure where all eyes can see further stamping the evil image of the breed permenently into thier heads.

Private play = behind closed gates where only the owners of saids dogs are attending and will or rather say should be able to handle any real altercation if one ever arrises.

For a dog that was acquired through a "fighting ring" (as you claimed in your intro thread) might need some extra attention when in the company of other dogs, and yet your doing the exact opposite by throwing all caution to the wind......reasons why the breed is in a downward spiral.....too many blinded by ignorance people owning a breed of dog that have zero business of owning in the first place.

Instead of posting as much as you do you might be better served by reading more.....alot can be learned if you soak up the knowledge that is being shared with you, if you choose to take it that is.

P.S. You cab bet your ass this is a hot topic for some of us, every step forward we take its folks like you who set us back. Anyone that threatens my dogs existance will be met with clenched fists and not the open arms you were expecting by starting this thread.

[tq4F7YKs]

You've been here since Dec 2008, you have over 900 posts and somehow you thought this thread would not turn in the fashion it has ? In your 1 1/2 of posting & your 900+ replies you never read the sticky on dog parks ?

Sorry your ass got slapped, you brought it all on yourself. When are you people going to learn that bringing a dog bred for combat to a dog park is just a flat out stupid idea ? It doesn't matter how well your dog is behaved its the other dogs that you need to be aware of.

For those of you in favor of dog parks, have you ever seen a full blown bulldawg fight unflold before your very eyes ? It takes fractions of a second for a real working terrier to get fired up and only a few more seconds after that before the real damage begins ( depending on what they are engaged with ). It is very counter-productive when your dog who was brought to a dog park to play turns play into a brawl. It blackends the eye further for the breed and helps fuel BSL. So even though it may only be YOUR dog in the altercation, that altercation can lead to OTHER peoples innocent dogs being punished in the process for your stupid ass mistake. So by you bringing your dogs to the dog park with no regards to the ramifications can cause others heartache and misery. By doing so is like saying Fuck You to the rest of us and that is what fries OUR asses and is exactly why your now dealing with the anomosity that your created.

For all you who are in favor of bulldawgs attending the dog park....mind of my dogs come play too ? I promise that the beatings my dogs dish out to other dogs will not have any negative impact on the breed ( insert sarcasm here ). You see thats the thing, you never know who will bring the wrong dog to the park that day, you might get someone who owns dogs of equal or greater calibar of dog as to which I own attending your dog park and believe me, you dont ever want a true working terrier off-leash in a high energy surroundings, that is bad news for your dog and the breeds safety.

Please explain how the postive far out-ways the negative, im sure we'd all like to hear your pro vs con list pans out.

No, your not understanding my point I am trying to get across.. I have sat and read thread after thread about how people take their dogs loose at the beach or a field with other dogs around that they do not know and the replies are *aww - I cant wait to do the same - what a wonderful story*, but mine starts out with the words dog park and everyone freaks.. I am not debating the fact that my actions might not have been the best choice.. I am debating the fact that it is ok in some places as long as its not called a dog park... some that have posted replies on here and some that have sent some pretty shitty messages off of here (thanks to me putting my personal info on my profile) are the exact same people who do the exact same thing and post the exact same stories - the only differance is its not a dog park - its legal name is something else.

Now as for getting slapped, I honestly do not care less what others think - but I did get pissed when I was told not to post it.. that is what this forum is for - if you disagree with what I post - so be it. ( I am a grown woman, I can handle it.. shit, I want you to - I might learn something or in the least learn your not as smart as you want to sound) . but do not tell me not to!

[Pdarassenko]

Menzie, I understand your point. I think that the risk of a dog fighting in a dog park is just as great as a dog fighting anywhere else that other dogs are present, assuming that there are only a couple of dogs there.

The only problem that I have with this situation is that while it is just as likely, you are dealing with dogs whose owners you do not know and are in a place that will probably attract a LOT of attention if a fight does break out.

As you said, if you are against bringing pit bulls to dog parks, then you should also be against them running around with strange dogs anywhere else. I agree, and I don't think it is a good idea to let your dog run around with strange dogs anywhere, to be honest with you. Personally, I am not comfortable letting Socrates play with anyone's dog unless I know the owner and the place where they are playing is not under public watch. I am far too afraid that a strange owner will try to have my dog PTS or taken away if I don't know and trust them. Also, even if I do trust the owner, I am not willing to risk a fight breaking out in any public place because it can attract media attention. I think that this is especially true in dog parks as they are common places to let your dog run free, and the media loves to scare people.

[Sdinozes]

No, your not understanding my point I am trying to get across.. I have sat and read thread after thread about how people take their dogs loose at the beach or a field with other dogs around that they do not know and the replies are *aww - I cant wait to do the same - what a wonderful story*, but mine starts out with the words dog park and everyone freaks.. I am not debating the fact that my actions might not have been the best choice.. I am debating the fact that it is ok in some places as long as its not called a dog park... some that have posted replies on here and some that have sent some pretty shitty messages off of here (thanks to me putting my personal info on my profile) are the exact same people who do the exact same thing and post the exact same stories - the only differance is its not a dog park - its legal name is something else.

I do not advocate taking APBT's ANYWHERE that is public domain ( hunting locations excluded ).

No beaches, no parks, no pet stores, no walks around the congested blocks that people live on...etc...etc...etc.. Things are alot different today as to how they were 20 some odd years ago. My dogs go nowhere in public that they do not need to be, and on the rare occasion when they do, its brief and they are muzzled at all times and I have multiple breaksteaks and an extra leash.

These dogs are not for everyone and that quote is proved daily by all the ignorance that this breed attracts. If people wanted social butterflies then maybe a terrier is the wrong breed for them. Terriers by nature are a tenacious breed that often lack fear and often will engage trouble head on without hesitation. Its those exact traits that forged this breed into the dogs they have become, why that escpase people is mind boggling....it really is.

Now as for getting slapped, I honestly do not care less what others think - but I did get pissed when I was told not to post it.. that is what this forum is for - if you disagree with what I post - so be it. ( I am a grown woman, I can handle it.. shit, I want you to - I might learn something or in the least learn your not as smart as you want to sound) . but do not tell me not to Believe me when it comes to APBT 101, I have yet to be proven wrong.

[MadMark]

The one piece of BSL I wouldn't mind seeing is having all APBTs and "Pit Bull" types banned from ALL dog parks across America...

humans just won't ever get it I suppose...

[MilenaJaf]

The American Temperament Test Society (ATTS) http://www.atts.org provides testing on several canine breeds. Based upon those facts, there are several breeds that are more likely candidates for fighting at the dog park because of the temperament. Some are just as capable of killing another animal as our beloved pit bulls. Some breeds that scored well below the American Pit Bull Terrier are Chihuahua, Chow Chow, Akita, Pomeranian, Toy Fox Terrier, Doberman Pinscher and of course the Miniature Poodle.

Even my Datchund and Austrailian Cattle Dog have less of a proper temperament than my pit.

Another cool note... Out of 218 breeds the American Pit Bull Terrier ranks 136. We beat 62% of all other breeds in temperament and, as noted above, aggressive tendencies were bread into them. Wow... It certainly helps us question if we should protect them from our breed or our breed from them.

I don't take my dogs to dog parks. They are just not safe for them no matter what the breed.

[tq4F7YKs]

Believe me when it comes to APBT 101, I have yet to be proven wrong.

or in the least learn your not as smart as you want to sound

I was not meaning to direct that remark at you..

---------- Post added at 06:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:40 PM ----------

The American Temperament Test Society (ATTS) http://www.atts.org provides testing on several canine breeds. Based upon those facts, there are several breeds that are more likely candidates for fighting at the dog park because of the temperament. Some are just as capable of killing another animal as our beloved pit bulls. Some breeds that scored well below the American Pit Bull Terrier are Chihuahua, Chow Chow, Akita, Pomeranian, Toy Fox Terrier, Doberman Pinscher and of course the Miniature Poodle.

Even my Datchund and Austrailian Cattle Dog have less of a proper temperament than my pit.

Another cool note... Out of 218 breeds the American Pit Bull Terrier ranks 136. We beat 62% of all other breeds in temperament and, as noted above, aggressive tendencies were bread into them. Wow... It certainly helps us question if we should protect them from our breed or our breed from them.

I don't take my dogs to dog parks. They are just not safe for them no matter what the breed.

Thank you - giving me facts and a source to follow is great and very welcomed.. giving me personal feelings - are as well, but not taken as seriously..

---------- Post added at 06:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:42 PM ----------

For a dog that was acquired through a "fighting ring" (as you claimed in your intro thread) might need some extra attention when in the company of other dogs, and yet your doing the exact opposite by throwing all caution to the wind......

Your right - I should have taken that into consideration and was stupid on my part.. even though she was 3 months old when I got her - she is still a higher risk.. (it wasnt a fighting ring - it was just some idiot doing it in his backyard, but none the less)

[Pdarassenko]

The American Temperament Test Society (ATTS) http://www.atts.org provides testing on several canine breeds. Based upon those facts, there are several breeds that are more likely candidates for fighting at the dog park because of the temperament. Some are just as capable of killing another animal as our beloved pit bulls. Some breeds that scored well below the American Pit Bull Terrier are Chihuahua, Chow Chow, Akita, Pomeranian, Toy Fox Terrier, Doberman Pinscher and of course the Miniature Poodle.

I could be wrong, but I don't think that the test conducted by the ATT even includes a reaction to another dog. And even if the test did say that those breeds were more likely to fight at a dog park and those breeds were capable of killing another animal, I don't think that matters. APBTs are far more likely to fight to the death than any other breed. For one, they are capable of doing extreme damage, but more than that, they were bred to fight and many of them love to do it.

---------- Post added at 07:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:48 PM ----------

APBTs have a great temperament toward people, that is definitely shown by those statistics. But that says little for their likeliness to fight with other dogs.

[MadMark]

This is what I don't get...

For all you Dog Park Advocates... Throughout the world wide web we have a countless number of websites saying it's a bad idea, they clearly and logically state the reasons, they state in a common sense approach... My question to you Dog Park Lovers is this... How can ALL these people who not only have a website but have the experience to back them up (I, personally am excluded from this list), some of these people are actually the sons and grandsons and great grandsons (daughters is included in all this as well ) How can all these people be wrong and you be so right? Please tell me just who you are? (My post isn't directed to the OP, It's primarily is targeting ALL the Dog Park Advocates)

I, also, would like to bring up why certain individuals take this to heart more than others... Some people, who were truly born into the breed (APBT) fathers and grandfathers have sweated, bled, bankrupt themselves, and everything else for the betterment of the APBT, and unfortunately the "Pit Bull" owners of today are a serious threat to ALL "Pit Bull" Owners throughout our Nation... We are the biggest threat to the future of the "Pit Bulls" by continually doing stupid stuff. By setting up our dogs to Fail. This is the reason why some take it to heart more than others... the others just don't seem to get it, the others can only think about theirselves (selfishly) and the hell with the rest... the others are failing the APBTs and all of us will suffer from them.

There was a recent attempt here in Florida to repeal our state law that protects ALL of us from BSL... we aren't out of the woods yet but it is looking good that this repeal isn't going anywheres... BSL is Real! Look at Denver. Don't think it can't happen in your area.

I personally don't think any dogs should go to that place... I consider it the playground for the Irresponsible, not to mention the odds of allowing your canine to pick up some sort of parasite or whatnot... Dog Parks are filthy and more often than not "the others" can be found be there... I'll stick with the group that has the heart of the APBTs...

[milfovoxapl]

Looking at this from an unbiased POV, neither arguement is convincing me.

You've all made awesome points from both sides, but it seems everything is being too.... generalised?

I mean, you can't make judgement on a puzzle that's missing pieces, if that makes sense.
You can't decide wheather or not someone is doing good or bad in a situation without knowing the specific details of individual scenarios.

For instance, I grew up in a very small, quiet, friendly community.
My mother has lived there since I was three, and so has virtually everyone else who lives there. When someone moves/passes away, someone who is a relative/friend of another person in the community moves in. That's just the way it's always been. People will tell you a joke when they pass, and pat your dog on the head, regardless of breed. It's a trustworthy, safe, and friendly environment for families and their pets.

A block over from my mothers' house there is a small park. It is not legally specified as a dog park or a playground, so to those who own dogs it is a dog park and to those who have kids it's a playground.

We've always taken our dogs there, and not once have I seen a dog there that I didn't know or expect to be there.

I take Bransen there still, whenever we're in the neighbourhood.

So when I say "Bransen and I went to the Dog Park this weekend" some people are going to assume I am some irresponsible owner who lets their dog romp freely with strange dogs and people in a big park, when this is surely not the case. However, I admit, it probably would look that way from the other side of the fence.

Anyways, I am rambling now and I have lost my point......

Sorry.

[Sdinozes]

For instance, I grew up in a very small, quiet, friendly community.
My mother has lived there since I was three, and so has virtually everyone else who lives there. When someone moves/passes away, someone who is a relative/friend of another person in the community moves in. That's just the way it's always been. People will tell you a joke when they pass, and pat your dog on the head, regardless of breed. It's a trustworthy, safe, and friendly environment for families and their pets.

Not sure what you dont get, this is a very black and white issue. Your either placing the breed in jeoprody or your not, its that simple. And lets se how "friendly" these neighbors get after your APBT kills thier poodle or lab. People highly frown apon losing a beloved pet especially when its at the mouth of an APBT. Not only do they despise you afterwards but they generally grow a deep rooted hatred towards the breed that they already feared in the first place. Once this happens you can rest assure that when/if a petition to ban the breed comes before them that they will eagerly sign thier name on the dotted line because they now have visual tangable proof that these dogs are the evil the media portrayed them to be.

[milfovoxapl]

Not sure what you dont get, this is a very black and white issue. Your either placing the breed in jeoprody or your not, its that simple. And lets se how "friendly" these neighbors get after your APBT kills thier poodle or lab. People highly frown apon losing a beloved pet especially when its at the mouth of an APBT. Not only do they despise you afterwards but they generally grow a deep rooted hatred towards the breed that they already feared in the first place. Once this happens you can rest assure that when/if a petition to ban the breed comes before them that they will eagerly sign thier name on the dotted line because they now have visual tangable proof that these dogs are the evil the media portrayed them to be.

Not sure what you don't get either, you can go ahead and black and white things all you want. It doesn't change the fact that situations vary so enourmously.

The only two dogs that aren't bullies that live in the neighbourhood are owned by my mother and one of my neighbours. The lab-mix, Marley, belongs to a neighbour, and she is one of Bransens' best friends.
Her owners and I know one another very well, as does everyone else in the community, and everyone who is exposed to my dog is well aware of what potential he has.

You're generalising it, black and white.

Without knowing the details, you can't make such a judgement.
Just as I cannot judge anyone on this forum as owners because I have absolutely no idea or proof of what their ownership status is.

I am not arguing or agreeing to either side, I am simply representing the gray areas of the matter.

[MadMark]

PunishtheDeed, I don't see ColbyDogs generalizing at all.

The FACTS are a Pit Bull is being allowed to "run" amongst stranger dogs... that's the Facts, plain and simple... The Pit Bull can be as dog friendly and fully under control by its owner... HOWEVER, how well does the Pit Bull Owner know the stranger dogs and strangers... Those are the Facts and the only thing matter. If one of those other dogs attacked the Pit Bull, in the eyes of the General Public, the media, and Law Enforcement... Pit Bulls are NOT allowed to defend themselves and if they do... which dog is going to be blasted in the National News as well as taken away to be PTS? the Lab? the German Shephard? the Poodle? That's the point and this is also about the Risk Level involved. Whether we like it or not, the choice(s) of ONE Pit Bull Owner affects us ALL, period. That's the Facts of the matter/situation. This is also the reason why some get so upset about it because owners of Pit Bulls who are making the choice and risking their own Pit Bulls are putting our Pit Bulls at risk and that's a major issue. The biggest threat to the APBTs and Responsible Owners of Pit Bulls are other owners of Pit Bulls by accepting the Risk and washing it away saying nothing is going to happen... The problem is within the Pit Bull Community and we're going to destroy the dogs we allegedly Love by brushing the risks aside...

I have one last question... Is the Risk of going to the dog park worth jeopardizing other people's rights to owning Pit Bulls?

[VogsHoock]

Who cares glad you had fun. I wouldnt do it but I dont care you did what you did. I would care if your dogs were DA or selective. You are aware of the consequences if something happened just as I am when I walk my dog or in fact OWN my dog. So no matter what we are always at risk so just keep your blinders on, people love to flame

---------- Post added at 10:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:01 PM ----------

What people also need to realize is NO ONE agrees with exactly what anyone else does with or thinks this breed should do.

[tq4F7YKs]

I personally don't think any dogs should go to that place... I consider it the playground for the Irresponsible, not to mention the odds of allowing your canine to pick up some sort of parasite or whatnot... Dog Parks are filthy and more often than not "the others" can be found be there... I'll stick with the group that has the heart of the APBTs...

That is a good issue to address here - I agree 100% (yes, I admit, I did not think about that when I took them, but it is a good issue.) Here I was fighting and paying out my rear to save a dog that caught mange in the care of another.. but yet, I put both of my dogs at risk of it at the park.. (I am sure many other health risks, but that one came to mind)..

(everyone else)
As for reading on here or the net about dog parks.. I've read a few, but no, I have not deeply read into it.. On this site - there is just so much to read... and even though, I have been a member since 08- I still do not know how to move through this forum very well (computer stupid).. but yes, I'd love to read more on it and I plan to.. (I AM willing to learn). So please, if teaching is what you want to do, feel free to direct me - I promise I will read it. as for 900 posts lol - its easy to rack up posts by replying to simple things like *aww cute pup*.. does not mean Ive been through the whole site 10 times.

I am still learning the history of this breed - I do not claim to be a pro.. but slandering people is not a way to teach them.. its a fast way to get them to not come back and learn further.. (thus leaving more people who know nothing of the breed to continue the way they do and hurt the breed worse)

I agree with it being situational. I see nothing wrong in what I did.. some of you do see wrong in it.. but Now that its been addressed with ME.. I will read further into it and learn more about it.. that does not mean I will agree with you afterwards... maybe the way I view it will change.. maybe not. but I do know one thing.. (childish or not).. I will not share any more experiances with you on this forum.. and that puts me at risk of not learning from my mistakes in the future. (which is why I joined this forum).. I will strickly read what I feel needs read and let it be!

I am sorry I caused such a outburst and for those I have upset - please forgive me. I did something I thought was ok since it was not busy there and I assure you, I will make sure I read throughly on the topic before I do so again and take it from there.. but I am done in this thread. Thank you to those who were willing to give advice and help..

[Sdinozes]

Not sure what you don't get either, you can go ahead and black and white things all you want. It doesn't change the fact that situations vary so enourmously.

Trust me, I get it, you can spin however you wish but your not ever going to convince me that placing your dog in a failing situation is anything to practice or embraced.

The only two dogs that aren't bullies that live in the neighbourhood are owned by my mother and one of my neighbours. The lab-mix, Marley, belongs to a neighbour, and she is one of Bransens' best friends.
Her owners and I know one another very well, as does everyone else in the community, and everyone who is exposed to my dog is well aware of what potential he has. So all these folks who reside in the same town as you would be ok with your dog if it killed thiers ? Bull shit on that ! You can bet that if that ever happened the demand for your dogs life would surely follow an incident that claimed the life of someone elses pet.

You're generalising it, black and white. Yup, thats because it is black and white.

Without knowing the details, you can't make such a judgement.
Just as I cannot judge anyone on this forum as owners because I have absolutely no idea or proof of what their ownership status is. Yes I can judge the situation and shall continue to do so until foolish minded people get it that placing a terrier known for its combat skills in a failing situation is a bad friggin idea. Its one thing when you gamble your own dogs life away its another when my innocent dogs lives are thrown into the mix. Its people like me who suffer when BSL gets passed, all the rest of you will move onto the next fad of dog while the people who respect these dogs are left broken hearted and dogless. Please explain to me how else we are suppose to view it.

I am not arguing or agreeing to either side, I am simply representing the gray areas of the matter. See above, there is no gray area.

[milfovoxapl]

your not ever going to convince me that placing your dog in a failing situation is anything to practice or embraced. I am attempting no such thing.

So all these folks who reside in the same town as you would be ok with your dog if it killed thiers ? Bull shit on that ! You can bet that if that ever happened the demand for your dogs life would surely follow an incident that claimed the life of someone elses pet. Where did I say that all the people in my town would be okay if my dog killed theirs?

I said nothing of the sort.

I said that the people my dog gets exposed to (the people in my COMMUNITY, about 40 adults total) know the potential of my dog. Meaning that they know what an APBT is capable of.
Dog owners in this community have an understanding that if something DOES happen, the fault is shared because BOTH owners knew the risk of the situation. This goes for APBT owners, and others.


Yup, thats because it is black and white. If you say so.


Yes I can judge the situation and shall continue to do so until foolish minded people get it that placing a terrier known for its combat skills in a failing situation is a bad friggin idea. Its one thing when you gamble your own dogs life away its another when my innocent dogs lives are thrown into the mix. Its people like me who suffer when BSL gets passed, all the rest of you will move onto the next fad of dog while the people who respect these dogs are left broken hearted and dogless. Please explain to me how else we are suppose to view it. How dare you make this a personal judgement on me?
You don't know anything about me!
This is exactly what I meant.

See above, there is no gray area. Alright, Captain.

[Sdinozes]

Where did I say that all the people in my town would be okay if my dog killed theirs?

I said nothing of the sort.

You just did.

I said that the people my dog gets exposed to (the people in my COMMUNITY, about 40 adults total) know the potential of my dog. Meaning that they know what an APBT is capable of.
Dog owners in this community have an understanding that if something DOES happen, the fault is shared because BOTH owners knew the risk of the situation. This goes for APBT owners, and others. Right there your saying that 40 people know all about APBT's and thier behavior ( not buying that for a second by whatever ) and that if something was to ever happen that they would accpet responsibility for any inncident that may occur. Your extremely naive if you truely believe that. The only thing they will accpet is the surrendering of your dog to ACO for it to be put down and nothing less.


How dare you make this a personal judgement on me?
You don't know anything about me!
This is exactly what I meant. If your not part of the solution then you are part of the problem and that is why I "dare" to make judgements on others who are hell bent on defying the odds with my dogs life at stake in thier ill-mannered practice.

Those who hate APBT's I can deal with, after all they are wolves. Some of you folks on the other hand are wolves in sheep clothing wich makes you worse of an enemy than those who are up front about thier preconceived notions when it comes to the eradication of the breed I love. I refuse to back down or see the logic in any of that. This has been asked a couple times now and has yet to be answered....what reward does this give that out-weighs the risk ? You cannot provide any tangable reason as to the reward being higher than the risk, reasons why it has yet to be answered.

[fissasste]

Trust me, I get it, you can spin however you wish but your not ever going to convince me that placing your dog in a failing situation is anything to practice or embraced.



So all these folks who reside in the same town as you would be ok with your dog if it killed thiers ? Bull shit on that ! You can bet that if that ever happened the demand for your dogs life would surely follow an incident that claimed the life of someone elses pet.



Yup, thats because it is black and white.



Yes I can judge the situation and shall continue to do so until foolish minded people get it that placing a terrier known for its combat skills in a failing situation is a bad friggin idea. Its one thing when you gamble your own dogs life away its another when my innocent dogs lives are thrown into the mix. Its people like me who suffer when BSL gets passed, all the rest of you will move onto the next fad of dog while the people who respect these dogs are left broken hearted and dogless. Please explain to me how else we are suppose to view it.



See above, there is no gray area.

These are true words spoken from years of experience.

---------- Post added at 09:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:57 PM ----------

You just did.



Right there your saying that 40 people know all about APBT's and thier behavior ( not buying that for a second by whatever ) and that if something was to ever happen that they would accpet responsibility for any inncident that may occur. Your extremely naive if you truely believe that. The only thing they will accpet is the surrendering of your dog to ACO for it to be put down and nothing less.




If your not part of the solution then you are part of the problem and that is why I "dare" to make judgements on others who are hell bent on defying the odds with my dogs life at stake in thier ill-mannered practice.

Those who hate APBT's I can deal with, after all they are wolves. Some of you folks on the other hand are wolves in sheep clothing wich makes you worse of an enemy than those who are up front about thier preconceived notions when it comes to the eradication of the breed I love. I refuse to back down or see the logic in any of that. This has been asked a couple times now and has yet to be answered....what reward does this give that out-weighs the risk ? You cannot provide any tangable reason as to the reward being higher than the risk, reasons why it has yet to be answered.

you are on fire tonight! LOL