[PilotVertolet]

I have a freiend who told me once that anything over (I think she said 65 pounds) wasnt a true Pit Bull. She is extreemly knowledgeable about game dogs and such; but I had to differ with her on that opinion.

I have a friend who had a very well bred game dog once who was a little over 100 pounds. I knew a lot of dogs in this particular dogs pedigree. I knew a lot of the people responsible for his breeding and I dont believe anything was falsified along the line. Dsepite that, she said he definitely wasnt pure.

I myself start questioning the purity of gameness after about 80 pounds but I think that just as there are some giants that crop up with people, there can be genetic freak giants crop up with dogs.

The thing about this dog that convinced me was his appearance. He wasnt a fat wide dog. He could have won in conformation. If you took a conformation champion and put them on a zerox machine and blew them up, that is what he looked like.

I remember hog dogs back in the 70s being up to 100 pounds. They were said to be Mastif crosses . As far as I can remember back then, 35 was small, 45-60 was normal, 65-80 was large and anything else was rare

[Marat]

Anything above the breed standard, give or take 5 pounds, I consider a mix. Kayrah is about 52 pounds, which is about 4 more pounds then I'd like her. But I give sway of 5 pounds, only because some dogs can be flukes and be bigger. But 100 pounds isn't a fluke. That's a mix.

[Gintovtosik]

Now Alan, you KNOW that depends on how you are defining "pit bull". As far as the law and most of JQP is concerned, American Bullys are pit bulls, and I've seen them up to 120 lbs.
If we're talking APBT's and AmStaffs, yes genetic freaks are possible, of course. But the gene that creates the problem....not telling the growth hormone when to shut off....is extremely rare in all mammal species and results in death at a young age. So if someone is presenting you with a 90 or 100 lb dog they are claiming to be an APBT, chances are high there is a mix somewhere down the line, thought the owner may be completely unaware of it. Genetic traits can often take several generations to pop up. Both of my parents are brunette with positive blood types. I was born blonde and my type is b-...no idea where either came from, but those traits are in our family SOMEWHERE.

[atmowasia]

Now Alan, you KNOW that depends on how you are defining "pit bull". As far as the law and most of JQP is concerned, American Bullys are pit bulls, and I've seen them up to 120 lbs.

This reminds me of another point...alot of these claims for bullies sizes are flat out lies. Many a bully kennels have been exposed as stretching the online pics and flat out lying about the sizes of their dogs to sell more. There are some, but 110s and 120s are more rare than unreputable breeders would lead us to belive.

I still hold to this Alan. For an ABPT...
"As far as I can remember back then, 35 was small, 45-60 was normal, 65-80 was large and anything else was rare"

[robstamps]

I have a freiend who told me once that anything over (I think she said 65 pounds) wasnt a true Pit Bull.

Assuming true "Pit Bull" = true "APBT"



Chain weight 75 lbs and one of the best match dogs that ever lived

[PilotVertolet]

I went to a kennel once and I didnt weigh any of their 85 and 90 pound dogs but they didnt look any bigger than my 65 and 70 pound dogs.

[DoctorGordanBens]

I have seen 70 pound dogs that were still correct. As far as I'm concerned, 5 or 10 pounds out of standard doesn't bother me. If a dog is substantially out of standard, it should be penalized accordingly.

[oyymoss]

http://muglestonspitbullfarm.com/males/goliath.html

[Gintovtosik]

That was horrifying! And WTF is a "giant rednose?!?!?!"
Excuse me. Going to go throw up now.

[glopomcyte]

I find too too many caught up in the actually # on the weight and they forget about how important the proportions are in the whole equation. The proportions make a HUGE difference in whether or not I'd think the dog was correct and a good example of an APBT

Sure a pit can weight 70 lbs which is fine if they are proportioned but if they are that weight & lets say 15'' -16'' tall and have a 23'' head.... then, YUCk!!!!! See what I'm saying . To play it in the other direction a 19'' 30 lb dog with a peanut snipey head would also not have correct proportions IMO. so just knowing the dogs weight isn't enough

The bigger APBTs years ago seem to be far and few between.

I'm sure there are some bigger ones that are purebred and more true to the standard ...however, BYBs breeding for HUGE size or the short and wide fads have taken things to the extreme where the dogs don't even reassemble pit bulls . So I question if they are purebred and just have horrible genetic disorders like chrondoplaysia or if they are mixed. I'm thinking it is a combo of both things depending on the breeder

If a dog is substantially out of standard, it should be penalized accordingly.

I agree

[oyymoss]

there are a few kennels out there that i have seen openly admit to breeding there pit bull dogs with hermes bulldogs,mastiffs, neo mastiffs etc. .......theyre time is limited but their gonna make their QUICK buck while they can!

im sure i can find links to these kennels if anyone is interested.

[PilotVertolet]

Years ago I had purchased a puppy from ________ Kennel. I couple months latter I had a friend looking for a puppy. I saw a local add and called on a puppy for my friend. Durring the course of conversation, I told the person on the phone that I was looking for a friend because I had just put down payment on an upcomming litter from ________ Kennel.

The man on the phone said "OH ya, I know _________ (called him by first name) very well." He went on to say that they were trying to create Ban Dogs. I had no clue what that was. He informed me they were trying to create a breed by crossing Pit Bulls and Mastiffs mostly. I didnt think too much about it.

When my puppy was born, I went to pick it up. _____ Kennel showed me they had some of the first American Bulldogs in USA. I had a flashback of my phone conversation but still didnt think a lot about it. My puppy was huge and had the biggest head I had ever seen on a Pit Bull at that time. He was a great dog but he acted a lot different than any previous Pit Bulls I have ever owned. He was about 80 pounds.

One day I was reading __________ magazine. In that magazine was a famous American Bulldog which had just gotten a part in a movie. It just so happened that the kennel of this famous dog had supplied ________ with their American Bulldog stock. The other thing that was funny was my dog had some rare markings. This famous dog had the Exact same rare markings. In fact, my dog looked nothing like his parents but looked identical to this dog. I showed several people the pictures of all dogs concerned and everyone agreed with me.

I cant prove anything which is why I left the name of the kennel out. Everything could just be a coincidence. However, If I had to bet, I would bet that my puppy was crossed with an American Bulldog and registered as a Pit Bull and was one of the first dogs people now refer to as low riders, although he wasnt proportioned like them at all. I also think this kennel was largely responsible for the creation of the American Bulldog even though people say this breed has existed for many years. I had never heard of them until all these incidents started. This Kennel is also well known for rather large Pits.

Like I said though this is simply JMO

One thing I forgot to add, this dog died of a heat stroke and so did a grandson of his. Stuff decended from him seemed to have breathing difficulity.

[SHUSIATULSE]

Well this is strait out the ukc standered for the APBT word for word
The weight is not important. But as we all no it really is because all the bully breeders out there that try to pass there dogs as APBT and aren't true APBT. The Preferred weight for females is 30-50 lbs & males from 36-60lbs. So its safe to say alot of us on this sight don't have the standered APBT in this day in age and im pretty sure the ADBA is pretty much the same.

[glopomcyte]

Well this is strait out the ukc standered for the APBT word for word
The weight is not important. But as we all no it really is because all the bully breeders out there that try to pass there dogs as APBT and aren't true APBT. The Preferred weight for females is 30-50 lbs & males from 36-60lbs.

Actually just saying weight is not important takes that part of the standard out of context. There is much more to that
To sum up,
Yes the UKC standard lists the desired weights and after that goes into talking about that the weight and also the height are both less important than the dog having correct proportions. Dogs above the listed weights are not penalized in the show ring unless they are rangy or massive which would make them out of proportion

here is a link to the UKC standard
http://www.apbtconformation.com/ukcstandard.htm

They can't pass a dog off that has crappy proportions... at least not to as judge that knows the breed and goes by the standard

[Poreponko]

http://muglestonspitbullfarm.com/males/goliath.html

I'm gonna go out on a crazy limb here and say...those are most assuredly NOT APBTs. What is with the tombstone? Because they all die early of heart failure?

[Poreponko]

I have a freiend who told me once that anything over (I think she said 65 pounds) wasnt a true Pit Bull. She is extreemly knowledgeable about game dogs and such; but I had to differ with her on that opinion.

I tend to agree with this, although, as always, there will be exceptions to any rule.

[SHUSIATULSE]

Actually just saying weight is not important takes that part of the standard out of context. There is much more to that
To sum up,
Yes the UKC standard lists the desired weights and after that goes into talking about that the weight and also the height are both less important than the dog having correct proportions. Dogs above the listed weights are not penalized in the show ring unless they are rangy or massive which would make them out of proportion

here is a link to the UKC standard
http://www.apbtconformation.com/ukcstandard.htm

They can't pass a dog off that has crappy proportions... at least not to as judge that knows the breed and goes by the standard

I agree with you totally on this a male APBT cant have Lil short legs and a wide body and a 28 inch head and be 35-60 pounds and be called a standard size APBT, the weight must be proportionate to his body.

[PilotVertolet]

I think what got the breed in trouble to begin with is that it was bred for performance and not so much for standard. That left the standards slightly open for interpetatiion and some people have taken advantage of it.

The thing a lot of people dont realize is the standards set for a conformation dog in a show ring are there for a reason. I am not a show person so I cant break it down for you. Maybe someone else can. The thing is that the set perportions were designed in a way which would best allow an APBT to do what he was designed for. Conformation plays a huge part in how well a dog performs in the pit. This is why a game bred 35 pound dog would eat one of those dogs at that web site for lunch.

[glopomcyte]

This is going off what I see at shows at working events and on the forums....

Many don't know the standard who own the breed which I find very sad or just don't take the time to look at it and consider it when picking a dog. Too many breeders don't know how to eval a litter or just don't share the info with the potential pup owner, while others flat out don't care

*This goes true for some breed rescue orgs placing dogs too. I understand that not ever one is looking for a dog to work or show and many great rescue dogs are in need of wonderful homes, but it would be nice if owners where at least educated on their dog whether he was a rescue or not.
Obviously the structural part of the standard is not going to be the end all be all for people looking for a "pet quality" dog, but it does help to know the dog you are getting and what potential health issues they could have due to structural problems.

But in my opinion for those even considering working their pup whether it be from a rescue or breeder the structure is a HUGE deal to think about

Form follows function

For instance just to pick out a few things:

if you want a dog to do weight pull or agility and pick one totally straight in the stifle you will be more likely to end up with a dog that has eventual ACL tears and will be more prone to injury as well. That structural issue can cause the dog not able to handle excess jumping, fast turns or extra weight bearing which also sometimes is part of everyday playing with pets.

Being down in the pasterns having being cow hocked , having slip hocks and poor angulation greatly affects overall movement

Sure some of these things don't matter as much if you are just looking for a pet like I said... however most pet owners do like playing and walking their dogs and these structural issues can and sometimes do make things tougher. So I feel people should be more informed. To me if will help them taken better care of and also be more cautious with certain activities they allow their dogs to do

[Pete789]

tat2stuff - dont forget the great Plumbers Alligator @ 70, one of the greatest big bulldogs ever.