[Fegasderty]

Source :: International Herald Tribune
Peter R. Neumann
Published: January 10, 2007

• The terrorists should be based in a clearly defined territory, where they can be integrated into the democratic process.
• They must maintain good internal discipline in order to minimize the risk of hard-line breakaway factions.
• And, most important, there must be a strong and consistent realization that there is little to gain from carrying on with the terrorist campaign.

Short article in which Neuman cites the IRA and ETA as examples where terrorists can be dealt with through negotations, but Al-Qaeda cannot, at least not as a whole.

Entire Article>>

[Paul Bunyan]

Do you mean that this conflict is a cause of terrorism?

I would call it an excuse to justify acts of terrorism. Anything that Israel does to placate the Palestinians (like returning the Gaza strip to them, for example) only makes terrorism much much worse.

Well said. And the reason this conflict hasn't been solved is almost entirely due to other Arab and Persian countries who are keeping the flames alight so their populations can continue to blame the Zionist entity for all their problems, instead of their own corrupt dictators.

[Lt_Apple]

Source :: International Herald Tribune
Peter R. Neumann
Published: January 10, 2007

Short article in which Neuman cites the IRA and ETA as examples where terrorists can be dealt with through negotations, but Al-Qaeda cannot, at least not as a whole.

Entire Article>>

TERRORIST IS NOT ONLY AL QAEDA ETA OR IRA!:

http://israelforum.com/board/showthr...862#post234862

[9mm_fan]

This is one reason, but not THE reason. Naturally there are circles that expoit the frustration of the people.

So we're agreed there's no bargaining with terrorists, they're driven by some internal mechanism that defies rational negotiations. Thanks

[Paul Bunyan]

Here is an article about Al Qaeda by Brendan O'Neill titled 'Does Al Qaeda Exist?' from 2003 - taken from Spiked-online.com

There is a 'rooted public perception of what al-Qaeda is', says Dolnik, who is currently carrying out research on the Terrorism and Political Violence Programme at the Institute of Defence and Strategic Studies in Singapore; but, he says, such perceptions are far from accurate. Dolnik argues that where many imagine that al-Qaeda is 'a super organisation of thousands of super-trained and super-secret members who can be activated any minute', in fact it is better understood as something like a 'global ideology that has not only attracted many smaller regional groups, but has also facilitated the boom of new organisations that embrace this sort of radical and violent thinking'. Dolnik and others believe that, in many ways, the thing we refer to as 'al-Qaeda' is largely a creation of Western officials.

'Bin Laden never used the term al-Qaeda prior to 9/11', Dolnik tells me. 'Nor am I aware of the name being used by operatives on trial. The closest they came were in statements such as, "Yes, I am a member of what you call al-Qaeda". The only name used by al-Qaeda themselves was the World Islamic Front for the Struggle Against Jews and Crusaders - but I guess that's too long to really stick.'

[Beerinkol]

Do you think that a Palestinian wakes up in the morning thinking "Well, I feel evil today. I think I gonna blow myself up. I just need an excuse."?
It requires years of hate, oppression and hopelessness to come this far. Nobody blows himself up just beeing evil.

Well, I'm sorry to break it to you nobody said they were evil, but your theory still doesn't hold any water. The 9/11 hijackers who blew up themselves and 3,000 other people were not oppressed (the bulk lived in S.A. in Muslim, "non-occupied" land), were middle class or rich, and educated. Hate and oppression many times is planted in peoples' minds, even where it doesn't exist. Palestinian suicide bombers have included lawyers, uneducated, brainwashed young children (the bulk), and even some Pakistanis who were living in Britain.



This is one reason, but not THE reason. Naturally there are circles that expoit the frustration of the people. Nevertheless the Israel conflict was and is a source of terrorism. Israel uses it's army in the conflict, the only waepon the Palestinians have is terrorism. So as long as the conflict lasts Israel will by tanks and planes and Palestinians recruit terrorists. And on global scale sympathizers will support Israel with money and Palestinians with terrorists. This is THE reason. Had it only been between the Palestinians and Israelis, the problem would've been solved a loooong time ago. Even many Palestinians admit to this. "The only weapon the Palestinians have is terrorism??" What are you, an Arafatist? Did India only have terrorism to be independent? Obviously, the Palestinians' violence (or the Arab worlds') hasn't brought them anything. Even if they do get their own state in the end, it will be much smaller than the one they were offered in 1947. So the whole conflict probably left 100,000 dead across 7+ countries, for what exactly? Nothing.


I don't know if I really want to support them. But I understand them. They are driven away from their land. What shall they do? Just sit and watch? Of course they have no chance against a cultural, economical and military superior Enemy and they will sooner or later loose all their land. But I understand that they are mad about it. So in 2006, should Jews be blowing themselves up in Germany to get their houses and land back?

[Lillie_Steins]

It is often with terrorists in history that interlectual middle class youth takes up the cause of the oppressed. At least they see it this way. The 9/11 hijackers where not very related to Israel anyway.

They were not related to Israel, but Al Qaeda has used "Palestine" as one of their causes. Most Arabs are not related or affected in any way by Israel but still fight against it in one way or another.


I do not quite agree with the bold words but I do admit that the Palestinians where always used and betrayed by their Arab "friends". Only recently Hamaz got to know what Arab solidarity means. Does "Arab solidarity" include killing 30 of their own people in a month? I'm sorry but "Arab solidarity" is nothing but a myth.


They beleived their own propaganda and thought Arab sympathizers would replace the payments from the west. Well this was wrong. They only gathered a few million and didn't even manage to get it into Palestina. Most of the Arab leaders only stand by the Palestinians when it serves their own purposes. Thats where I agree. Some believed the propaganda, others just wanted to be in power, some wanted to get rich like Arafat, who stole billions from the Palestinians.


Hmm... They would have a reason. But I also think that their are some differences to the conflict in Palestina. They would have a reason but they would not be justified in killing innocents. And of course there are differences, Jews did not declare war on Germany but Germany declared war on the Jews. And the Jews have not declared war on the Palestinians, quite the opposite.

1. WWII is over but the settlements in Palestina are still going on.
2. As far as I know surviving Jews got everything back that money can pay. Unfortunately most of the things that where lost cannot be brought back though. 1.If Jews decided they wanted to live in DP camps and fight the Germans till the end of days they would be in the same situation as the Palestinians.

2. Not even close. Even today, over 60 years later, there are lawsuits over famous paintings stolen by the Germans. My grandmother returned after the war to find horrible people living in her house. Nobody got back what they lost, not their family nor their belongings. Some Holocaust survivors are living below poverty levels, not everybody receives reparations.

But back to Palestina - Still I just wouldn't know if I was a Palestinian what to do to save my country. What option do they have? They already turned down a country so many times! And the terrorist options haven't brought them anything, has it? As I said, even if they form a state, it will be much smaller than they were originally offered. They have already lost and continue to make it worse on themselves.


I think Israel Pioneers themselves used terrorism to fight the British. True, Israeli pioneers killed maybe 100 British 60 years ago. Arabs were committing crimes against the Israeli pionners and the British were siding with the Arabs.


Yes, and still there's no peace in sight. Both sides have no majority in their population for an accaptable peace. Majority of the Israeli population wants to give up the settlements, that's a fact. THe ones that don't are just afraid of qassams launching into their living rooms. Please, the moral equivalency thing is not realistic.