[Peptobismol]

This reminds me of the quote by Golda Meir that there won't be peace until the Arabs love their children more than they hate us.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/17/wo...rssnyt&emc=rss

Mascot for Hamas TV Show Is a Mouse No More

By THE NEW YORK TIMES
Published: July 17, 2007

JERUSALEM, July 16 — Hamas television, which was criticized for a Mickey Mouse-like character named Farfur who spouted anti-Israeli and anti-Jewish nostrums at children, has replaced the mouse with a bee named Nahoul, who says he is Farfur’s cousin.
Farfur was beaten to death by an Israeli who wanted his land on the previous episode of the children’s show “Tomorrow’s Pioneers.”
Nahoul, the bee, says: “I want to continue on the path of Farfur, the path of ‘Islam is the solution.’ The path of heroism, the path of martyrdom, the path of jihad warriors.”
In the name of Farfur, the bee says, “we shall take revenge on the enemies of Allah, the murderers of the prophets, the murderers of innocent children, until Al Aksa will be liberated from their filth.”
Palestinian Media Watch, an Israeli group that monitors Palestinian media for anti-Israeli and anti-Jewish incitement, says the bee is referring to Jews and Israelis. Al Aksa refers to the mosque that is part of the Noble Sanctuary, a site holy to Muslims in Jerusalem on the Haram al-Sharif, known to Jews as the Temple Mount.

[PhillipHer]

We should be likewise indoctrinating our youth in our side of the cultural war. The Muslims understand how to make people culturally aware, while the West finds this unfashionable.

What exactly are you calling for? Hamas is indoctrinating children to hate Jews and become martyrs. This is not making them culturally aware, it is training the next generation of terrorists. I hope you are not calling for the same.

[Fegasderty]

I am calling for pro-war and anti-cultural tolerance indoctrination. Terrorism is not the problem, nor is terrorism a productive tactic. I prefer my enemies use terrorism.

Non-Muslims should fully understand that islam is their enemy because it seeks to create Islamic societies, seeks to spread Islam into non-Islamic areas, and thus seeks to destroy non-Islamic culture. With respect to Jews, it is the same as Nazism. Teaching our people not to fight is teaching them to surrender. It is a binary choice. There is no "good" version of Islam.

"Hamas is indoctrinating children to hate Jews and become martyrs."

I favor teaching Westerners the fact the above is inherent to Islam. it is not necessary to be tolerant and inclusive of an enemy. The essence of islam is the Nick Berg execution, which is why it was used as islamist propaganda.
I favor relentlessly throwing these Muslim-produced examples in the faces of the Western weaklings who advocate unthinking tolerance of everything...but their own culture.

"This reminds me of the quote by Golda Meir that there won't be peace until the Arabs love their children more than they hate us."

She foolishly misread Islam. "Arabs" do love their children. The superstition that is their only context for explaining spiritual experience offers a "pie in the sky when you die", and life is expendable to that end.

Is that the only two possiblities you see, that we either teach our children a "pro-war and anti-cultural tolerance indoctrination" or we are teaching them "not to fight" and to "surrender"?

I chose a third option, teach them a balanced view of Islam and that it is ok to defend yourself.

Israel needs to survive in the midst of 1.3 billion Muslims. If we follow your strategy of eternal war with all Muslims, we will end up like the crusaders. The numbers will eventually catch up with us.

Concerning Golda's statement, she didn't say Arabs don't love their children, only that they hate us more. Your view only holds if you think that Islam teaches that murdering non-combatants by blowing yourself up makes you a martyr. That teaching is not universally accepted by Islamic scholars.

[Raj_Copi_Jin]

I'm really shocked this was actually reported on by the NY Times. I'm even more shocked that they admitted this evil character used anti-Jewish comments, instead of their usual whitewashing calling them just "anti-Israeli."

[Raj_Copi_Jin]

"If we follow your strategy of eternal war with all Muslims, we will end up like the crusaders."

Eternal war? No such thing. War sufficient to discredit their "Allah" is a different matter.
There are many religions which had massive followings and now are historic curiosities. There is no need to fight all members of a group. Destabilization, select wars, and a global policy designed to use alliances and economics to undermine the opponent are all options.
The idea of "eternal war" is a grossly simplistic strawman. However, the West should reject Islam itself and educate the people to make the spread of Islam as difficult as possible. For that we need indoctrination. ALL religion is indoctrination, all ideologies require indoctrination to spread, so it is rational to indoctrinate.

"The numbers will eventually catch up with us."

Only if we were stupid enough to fight like Crusaders. Do not presume perpetual growth of Islam any more than you would have presumed perpetual growth of Communism.

"War sufficient to discredit their Allah"? Do you think if we defeat them enough that Islam will become an "historic curiosity"? If so, I disagree. I don't think Islam is a temporary phenomenon like communism.

So, when I say it would be an eternal war, that is not a strawman, but is based on my assessment that Islam isn't going to disappear.

Please remember, it was the hardliners like Reynaud de Chatillon that brought down the Crusaders.

[Fegasderty]

The Crusader comparison is so flawed as not to be worth making in the modern world. A small mob of pillagers from Europe, the Crusaders are unworthy of comparison to a global clash of modern, interconnected forces.
As for "eternal", Rome was under the delusion that their empire was eternal too.
Using the term "eternal" in the context of the war with islam is poor language.
No human institution, nor humans themselves, has any expectation of eternal existance.

"I don't think Islam is a temporary phenomenon like communism."

That does not mean it cannot be weakened or changed by prolonged conflict. It took a variety bloodbaths to make Christians behave themselves in the modern world too. Unreformed religion is targeted toward and adored by primitives.
In order for freedom to grow, religion must be weakened by violent conflicts and through other circumstances that cause people to view it more as a social club and less as a heirarchy of divine enslavement.

When the man in the street is free to express scorn and contempt for ANYTHING, then he is free to speak. We must be free to scorn all deities and dissect all beliefs without fear of punishment, or we are not free to believe.
Freedom of speech is the freedom to offend, because otherwise all speech is subject to censorship because it "offends" someone who chooses to be offended by it in order to stifle it.
Religious societies strike directly at such freedom, so they should be destroyed/changed and replaced with secular systems. There is no tool of enslavement like a government that claims it is doing a gods work. The fusion of government and religion in Islam is why it is toxic and has failed to evolve.

Yeah, you're right, "using the term 'eternal' in the context of the war with islam is poor language", because if we take on all of Islam, we wouldn't last that long.

You believe Islam could be "weakened or changed by prolonged conflict." I believe the same is true of Israel. When you are facing a much larger opponent, you need to fight smart.

I think it is much wiser to ally with those Muslims who are willing to help us against the terrorists than to take on all of Islam. I think our job is to destoy terrorists and enemies of Israel, not Islam as a whole.

I don't think the Crusader comparison is flawed, because I was talking about a specific Crusader. It was extremists like Reynaud de Chatillon who brought about the fighting which led to the destruction of the Kingdom of Jerusalem.

It was also the extremists who brought about the war with Rome that led to the destruction of the Second Temple. The Roman Empire may not have been "eternal", but it sure lasted long enough to damage our people.