[Fegasderty]

Originally posted by Isiah 2:4
If this is WW3 it began long ago...

It has its roots in colonial and imperialist bunglings (i.e creating nation-states that had never existed before, thereby amplifying tribal and relgious disputes). The Iran-Iraq war, the Arab-Israeli conflict, The Indian-Pakistan conflict and the Cold war have both fuelled and contributed to it. Western diplomatic/political malpractice and short-sightedness has been impotent in stemming its reach and effect on many many countries and peoples of the world. Hypocrisy, double-dealings and divided approaches by powerful nations when dealing with geo-Politics has also caused the 'war' to be elongated.

It became an international terrorist Jihad in Tehran, Iran, 1979. It has grown steadily into a more religious/ideological war, rather than a political one. For the religious element not to get stronger there will have to huge reform withing Islam, and that can only come from within.

Well articulated, Isiah 2:4, not much to add, but good post.

It will not end unless the social and political situation in Muslim countries or immigrant communities in Europe gets better, somehow . It will not end unless the Democratic nations of the world deal with the problem quick enough. It will not end if our response appears to be weak, unsure, unstable and divided.

If a bio/chemical attack occurs in Europe or the USA, i can guarantee you the war will come to the streets of our cities, worldwide, in the form of social unrest, chaos and hatred (from both sides).

In fact, it will probably have no definitive end because it had no definitive beginning. It is an unconventional war. Until the Oil of the Middle east dries up, don't expect anymore a bold reaction than we have already had from Europe or the USA. And by that time comes, China and the Far East will be an even greater threat to international security. Don't expect a quick fix, because the only quick fix there is, is to carpet bomb every Muslim capital on the planet. I sincerely mean it. We all know that thats not going to happen, and i don't particularly wish for it to happen either. But for now, sit back and blog your impotent little asses away on forums like this; its about the only thing you can do.

[MannoFr]

Originally posted by OntheRight
I believe we are in WWIII, although, I believe it started on 9/11/01. We have yet to see that catalyst which will bring other nations into it. You have to remember it was approx. 3 years before the US engaged in WWII. The muslims will attempt, and possilbly succeed at a major strike. When that happens other nations will be brought into the frey. Why do you think Qudafi capitulated? He knows what is about to happen and wants no part of an invasion by the west into Libya. Also keep a very close eye on Russia. what about China?

I wonder about the various nations' possible positions if it becomes a situation where the war crystalizes into clear national sidings. However, it's also possible that it will never crystalize and nations will play a hand at fooling other nations??

is that possible?

[S.T.D.]

Originally posted by TheyAre
We're in the middle of the Second Great War against fascism / totalitarianism.

The First Great War started in 1914 and ended in 1991. It, one after the other, destroyed monarchial totalitarianism, fascist totalitarianism (kind of redundant to say fascist totalitarianism), and communistic totalitarianism. Why don't you start from 1776- the birth of the first country without a monarchy?
The wars between 1914 and 1991 weren't one long war, but a large, cohesive segment in the historical developement of the world. Now we are in a seperate stage, fighting against Islamic/arab inspirations. I would not say it is a war against religious fanaticism, because there is only one religion that we are dealing with now, and the problematic adherents are not necessarily fanatics, in the sense that they practice a very widespread and accepted interpretation of their religion, very arguably the correct version.

I say that this war (WWIV) has not started yet. We are at the stage corresponding to the occupation of the Rhinelnd and Studeten. The enemy is flexing his muscles and testing and defining his postition. When the war starts, sides will be clearly drawn (if not by the Arabs, then by the West).

The war is against the arab/Islam combination. Islam without the arabs (e.g. Turkey) is not a relevant threat. Arabs without Islam would be too divided and directionless to be a threat. Together, we have a culture that wants war, doesn't care about life, and has a religion to give it unity and inspiration. The war is against the uncivilized part of human civilization.

[Drugmachine]

Originally posted by Binyamin
You're right, but those republics died out. The next two thousand years of Western civilization did not maintain their form of government. Current Western democracy began with the American Revolution, and that was an important change in the development of the Western world as it is now. It is more correct to say that it began with Oliver Cromwells revolt in England 1649, many of his followers later founded the US and it's breed of Democracy and Christianity
.

[TorryJens]

We are in the early stages of WW4! Not 3, which was the cold war.

WW4 has its roots in WW2...with the Nazi relationship to the Arabs. WW3 also contributed to the eventual primacy of this WW, as the soviets replaced the Nazi's as the supporters of Arab imperialism.

But, make no mistake, this war did not begin in 9/11. Lebanon in the 80s, Hijackings, the Iranian hostages, the USS Cole, the WTC in 1993, even the OPEC embargo.. etc. etc. etc. ... this war has been ongoing, IMO, since maybe the mid 60's - it just was hard to separate it then from the Cold war, since we viewed the Arabs as a sort of satalite of the Soviets. To a large extent we were wrong.