[Lillie_Steins]

Originally posted by Mira
Garbage! That's the short answer.

[Beerinkol]

Originally posted by SteveMetch
That’s like saying moderate Nazi and radical Nazi.

The only good Muslims are cultural Muslims Can't you see how terrible it is to compare all religious muslims to nazi's? Watch out with what you're saying.
As a matter of fact, I know a moderate religious muslim.

[doctorzlo]

Originally posted by Ahava
Are you unaware of the fact that many muslims say that those terrorists are not real muslims at all? Some Sunni do not consider Shiia to be Islam.


The Koran is very open for interpretation, Not really no more so that the people who are 'interpreting' it. They have their literalists and their constructivists. But the source material is no more subject to interpretation than are the Gospels for example.

you can see the peaceful, good elements in it, or you can interpret it in an anti-Jewish, anti-western, anti-Kufar way.

The key is who is doing that. a) Islam like Christianity is triumphalist. It asserts it is the final and only word. b) Islam is not self directed; interpretations come from the top down. One is not permitted to do their own thing or permitted to splinter off the way Protestants do and can. The definition of apostacy is quite narrow. Now one could make the case for some schools of Orthodox Judaism but not all of them.

One could say the same thing about liberal vs. orthodox Judaism. In what sense? There are quite few absolute Judaic literalists. Otherwise there would be no Talmud, there would be no Chassidim, there would be no Modern Orthodox, there would be no Orthodox Existentialists (R. Neil Gillman for example). Liberal Judaism and by that I guess you mean Reform, Reconstructionist and part of Masorti all pretty much assert the same things as Orthodox; the Torah is true, the mitzvoth are real and so on. Where they vary is in practice, liturgy.


There are light years between Chassidim and me.
You'd be surprised I discover that within Chassidim there are many different shades from Lubavitcher to Satmar and in between. Check out a Lubavitcher shul one time - you might like it.

It depends on where you stand, and whether you believe liberal judaism is still Judaism, and I strongly believe it is. Why would you care all that much if someone else thinks its not? I get into arguments with my Lubavitchers all the time and I think a 'don't ask don't tell' policy is the best for everyone. No one is a 'superJew' and the hardcases will always spit on you and call you apikorsim anyway. I almost pity them their intolerance.


It can work the same way with Islam, although I agree moderate muslims are more orthodox than mainstream Jews. When I say "religious muslims" I mean belief in Allah and Muhammad, and not necessarily living to the letter of the law, rather the spirit of the law, or in a modern way. There are modern observant muslims I am proud to know. Religion, any religion has a role to play in this world, not the 8th century mosque and not the shetl and it is vitally important to understand the difference between fanaticism and piety. We don't really care why fanatics believe what they believe, we only care why it's so attractive to other people, why it's so useful and efficient as a political tool.

[PhillipHer]

Originally posted by Kev

Wonders if a war between the EU and the USA is a possiblity for the near future?
Anyone? Out of the question. In the end, we all share the same values and have the same objectives. Democracy, humanity, freedom, defeat of terror, peace.

[brraverishhh]

Will the next EU president be a mainstream moderate muslim or a radical muslim?

[doctorzlo]

But in the end it's really not their '3-11' anymore than if those trains had simply slipped off the rails and crashed into pedestrians, killing 200. It's not the victimhood, though some could argue that 9-11 has in the US become a cross between an orgiastic death cult and a Hallmark card. It's the response it engendered. It caused American foreign policy and domestic actions, for better or worse to rapidly switch direction. It created a new forum for discussing whether the US should be isolationist or not. And it launched a few mini-wars.

I suspect that Spain, having tossed out the old administration will feel its job is done. Oh we may now see Spain host some antiglobalization conferences and attempt to extend its political agenda into places like Argentina, but I can't seem them either reaching out to 'understand and empathsize the Islamists who want to control their society nor do I see them getting into a schoolyard tussle with the French and the Germans who quite nearly support those very same terrorists anyway. I just don't see people like Chris Patten and Terje Larsen and Chriac risking their retirements on something as petty as this.

Let's face it, the EU is scurrying around with emergency sessions to address terrorism this week but they aren't really going to take any concrete steps that would address it from a law enforcement and intelligence perspective at home and they certainly aren't planning on doing something over there. Perhaps they will hand out some jobs programs to poor muslims in Europe and create some new humanitarian missions overseas. Perhaps they will make noises about cooperating with the Islamic bloc in the UN. Otherwise, we should be prepared to quietly forget this ever happened.