[egexgfczc]

Colin Powell and Larry Wilkerson have come out against it.

An Ex-CIA Officer in this story came out against it 4 years ago. Ex-CIA Officer Speaks Out Against Waterboarding : NPR

*** Obama's CIA Man: Afshin Rattansi and ex-CIA man, Ray McGovern********* : Information Clearing House - ICH Ray McGovern, another ex-CIA guy against torture.

Jesse Ventura, who went through SEARS training; against it for the same reasons.

John McCain's against it for the same reasons.

Vincent Cannistrano, Bob Baer, Frank Anderson, Burton L. Gerber, Merle Pribbinow, Frank Snepp, all highly decorated former CIA guys, all against it for the same reasons. CIA veterans speak out against torture (11/23/05) -- GovExec.com

The list just goes on and on and on, but it still doesn't stop the neo-con chicken hawks from believing whatever they make up in their fairy tale existences, just like how they think if all of the people in the parking lot at the shopping mall in Tucson were armed that somebody would save the day and shoot the shooter, which is just fairy tale thinking by people who can't back up their assertions.

[courlerwele]

What is it with you people?

Look, torture is bad. That's why they call it "torture" instead of "happy fun time". The flip side is that, in some cases, it is also effective in getting information out of people.

There is no reason to believe that "enhanced interrogation" didn't reap some rewards including the disclosure of certain names and modes of operation that eventually lead to bin Laden.

Interrogation is a process and many different methods of interrogation are used on an individual to get "good" information. That information can't be relied upon by itself but when it is combined with information from other sources the ultimate utility of that information can be determined. Is it possible to beat someone into "confessing" that the sky is green instead of blue? Sure. Do you just take that information and run with it? Hell no.

When you are dealing with violent people a lot of the "rules" of polite society go out the window. Strict adherence to such rules can make a dangerous situation even more dangerous not because you don't care about them but because the other son of a bitch has completely blown them off. These terrorists had no qualms whatsoever about blowing up innocent people, flying aircraft into occupied buildings, chopping heads off of innocent people, strapping bombs to the mentally disabled and blowing them up in crowded streets. You don't pussy foot around with a creature like that. You control it or you kill it because absolutely nothing you do is going to turn it into a human.

[chadnezzrr]

What is it with you people?

Look, torture is bad. That's why they call it "torture" instead of "happy fun time". The flip side is that, in some cases, it is also effective in getting information out of people.

There is no reason to believe that "enhanced interrogation" didn't reap some rewards including the disclosure of certain names and modes of operation that eventually lead to bin Laden.

Interrogation is a process and many different methods of interrogation are used on an individual to get "good" information. That information can't be relied upon by itself but when it is combined with information from other sources the ultimate utility of that information can be determined. Is it possible to beat someone into "confessing" that the sky is green instead of blue? Sure. Do you just take that information and run with it? Hell no.

When you are dealing with violent people a lot of the "rules" of polite society go out the window. Strict adherence to such rules can make a dangerous situation even more dangerous not because you don't care about them but because the other son of a bitch has completely blown them off. These terrorists had no qualms whatsoever about blowing up innocent people, flying aircraft into occupied buildings, chopping heads off of innocent people, strapping bombs to the mentally disabled and blowing them up in crowded streets. You don't pussy foot around with a creature like that. You control it or you kill it because absolutely nothing you do is going to turn it into a human.

Wow. Testimony after testimony from people who actually do interrogations for a living telling you that torture is not effective, and it makes no difference. You believe. Why? What possible reason do you have for believing torture is effective? I mean, aside from watching fictional action movies?

[maxfieldj1]

... you seriously believe that the events of this year were all based on information obtained 8 years ago?

That's what the president's mouth-piece was shoveling out minutes ago at the White House press conference. He claimed some of the data threads used were over 9 years old.

[c-cialis]

You guys can defend torture all that you want. Torture is torture, and something that we have seen as evil, as we should. My America would never engage in torture. The end never justifies the means. We either have noble principles and try to live by them or we join folks such as Stalin and Hitler's Germany, just two of many who have indulged in evil deeds.

Yet I am not surprised by so many willing to indulge in torture, as we no longer respect human life, that is in the womb. We are slowly becoming the Romans, a little bit at at time, until one day we will not resemble what America used to be, and what America stood for.

I would have rather let Bin Laden remain free than to undermine America's principles, if I had that choice. But principles and morality is quickly losing its previous popularity, and it is a sad day for America. We have become what we used to despise. Ironic.

While I share in your sentiments, somewhat, we are not what we despise.

Bin Laden's ilk hacked-off the head of Daniel Pearle and posted the video on the internet. In contrast, we did our best to honor bin Laden's body according to Islamic custom.

At least in the context of the war against radical Islam, we have light-years to go before we come what we despise.

[galaktiusman]

That's what the president's mouth-piece was shoveling out minutes ago at the White House press conference. He claimed some of the data threads used were over 9 years old.

Calling it a thread suggests continuity over time. A thread that started 9 years ago is different from "an item from 9 years ago"