[FrereeDoulley]

Me cowardly?

Hysterical...

How about you being willfully ignorant about the current state of the world economy? I say and mean 'willfully ignorant' because you are choosing to ignore it.

You're the one who advocates out-of-control military spending in the current economic climate.

[sobre]

Until the BRIC eat our fucking lunch and it's too darn late.

Specify how Brazil, Russia, India, and China could conquer this country after my proposed cuts.

Stupid, stupid, stupid proposal. Do you deny that oceans are one of the most effective free, natural military defenses in existence?

Much respect for you generally as a member here, but this proposal is just asinine. Tell me why this country needs a large standing army for defense (and nothing that the Army and Marines are doing now, nor anything they've done in an extremely long time, is real defense). Maintaining Pax Americana is not defense. Catering to billionaire robber barons is not real defense either.

[crumoursegemo]

Dude. I believe that we can cut a lot of waste from military spending but those changes.....no.

Explain to me why this country needs large standing ground forces. Do you support the military presence in Iraq and Afghanistan?

What we need to look into is defense research and development. We spend a lot of money on projects that go nowhere. The Bradley Fighting Vehicle is one such example of an unnecessary project that cost hundreds of millions to develop and is the most useless vehicle in the arsenal. I agree. Scrap all of that sort of garbage.

Another thing we need to do is close military bases. We have too many world wide. We should pull out all together from Iraq, we are still bleeding billions over there and we need to NOT put troops on the ground in Libya and keep our investment in that conflict to a minimum and let NATO and other countries bear the brunt of the cost. You'll notice that this is one of the items in my plan.

Then finally put an end to no-bid contracts and get private security contractors out of official military business. We do not need them and they seem to do more harm than good anyway. I agree. It is time to get tough with those parasitic, murderous cock suckers.

If you want to talk about agencies that we need to eliminate...one such agency would be the DEA. They are failures. They cannot win the war on drugs. Taking them out will save 50 billion right there between their operations, salaries and judicial costs. The legalize most recreational drugs and tax and regulate them which will bring in even more revenue. I wholeheartedly agree.

We kind of need the CIA. They are a necessary evil that can save the country billions in war costs by defusing situations before they get out of hand and the Army and Marines are kind of important as are the Reserves and National Guard. If I need to explain why, then it's not worth explaining. You are thinking within the confines of the Pax Americana paradigm. Do you, of all people, support Pax Americana?

[sandyphoebetvmaa]

unclassifiable: on defense cuts... if you've 'lost' TomBlaze, you've lost.

No, he could be just another Bill/Hillary type who supports US imperialism only slightly less enthusiastically then the Republicans (sans the paleocons like Ron Paul) tend to do. I will let him respond to my response to him to see where he stands.

[Txaizdxx]

Since some people don't seem to be grasping my point about a country with the USA's geographic advantage not needing large standing ground forces, and since a lot of people need to see simple pictures in order for even simple ideas to sink in, I am providing this:

[longrema]

With the CIA gone, and with Pax Americana dead, our country will once again have the moral high ground.

And just how do you define moral high ground?

All defensive needs currently being met, will still be met under my proposal, yet the hard working citizens of our country will no longer be burdened with extremely wasteful military spending.

So what would you spend it on instead?

[mp3 free]

I have identified five objectives of the US military:
.........

Well, that particular plan won't work, but your premise that the Pentagon budget can be massively cut is legit.
The defense of the United States can be accomplished for a lot less than we spend today. But the key is to re-envision the US, not as the worlds policeman, but as a citizen of the world, without an overseas agenda. Changing the world by our example of a free people enjoying the fruits of their labor, not a people laboring to outfit the most expensive military the world has ever seen.

[vicgirl]

Well, that particular plan won't work, but your premise that the Pentagon budget can be massively cut is legit.
The defense of the United States can be accomplished for a lot less than we spend today. But the key is to re-envision the US, not as the worlds policeman, but as a citizen of the world, without an overseas agenda. Changing the world by our example of a free people enjoying the fruits of their labor, not a people laboring to outfit the most expensive military the world has ever seen.

Well said. Couldn't agree more.

[soineeLom]

Well, that particular plan won't work, but your premise that the Pentagon budget can be massively cut is legit.
The defense of the United States can be accomplished for a lot less than we spend today. But the key is to re-envision the US, not as the worlds policeman, but as a citizen of the world, without an overseas agenda. Changing the world by our example of a free people enjoying the fruits of their labor, not a people laboring to outfit the most expensive military the world has ever seen.

I think you're right, it does involve a new way of thinking & seeing.

Adding to the difficulty of seeing the world differently is the fact that the USA has not heeded the warnings of President Eisenhower. He spoke of the military industrial complex & how it would be a mistake to have it become too entangled with our nation's economy.

There are & have been perpetual wars throughout the world & the US economy seems to be at least partially dependent on the presence of wars. Let's face it, we spend the most money in the world (by far) on military/defense, factor in defense products manufacturing gains whether we are involved or not & what do you get? Who would you look to? Doesn't it makes sense to look to the Country that spends the most (by far) & benefits the most (by far) when you have warring needs?

If we wanted to imagine the US differently (not as police but as citizen) we would have to take into consideration the impact on the US economy, unemployment & other factors.

One way to defray the damage or reducing the 'collateral damage' of cutting defense spending could be to have more 'mobile' forces. That is, have people stationed here working on infrastructure, developing alternate energy sources, etc. but be able to 'move out' when needed.

Another thing that would need to change is the marketing of 'fear.' The marketing of 'fear' has been one of the most lucrative commodities in the past 30-40 years. It drives the war machines. I don't believe fear motivates. I believe fear makes one more likely to make mistakes, act irrationally, make poor decisions, et cetera.

[Jadykeery]

Another thing that would need to change is the marketing of 'fear.' The marketing of 'fear' has been one of the most lucrative commodities in the past 30-40 years. It drives the war machines. I don't believe fear motivates. I believe fear makes one more likely to make mistakes, act irrationally, make poor decisions, et cetera.

Yup. Dragons at the gate. It's been going on for a lot longer than a few decades. Fear (largely unjustified) is what they use to control us. Not much has changed in that regard.

[Bobobsdo]

You worship the military, which is loaded with Bible thumping freaks, and which is supported by tens of millions of Bible thumping freaks. That makes Bible thumping freaks very much your peeps.

we all understand you are a bigot and hate everyone that is not just like you.
we also understand you have no clue about a thing you are talking about.
i have 26 years in the military and have yet to meet one of these bible thumping freaks you are talking about.
so remeber as you wallow in your bigotry that the miltary that you despise so much gives you the right to be the way you are

[lorrieholdridge]

Yup. Dragons at the gate. It's been going on for a lot longer than a few decades. Fear (largely unjustified) is what they use to control us. Not much has changed in that regard.

Fear of the 'other' has probably been around as long as Humanity has. What gets my goat is that I've noticed more of the 'divide & conquer' type of fear here in the US. In power dynamics theory, it's always been observed that a people who are chronically afraid are easily divided. Divided & then conquered.

Stating the obvious: it's self-defeating.

[Sotmoigma]

Doing what unclass suggests would effectively result in us adopting an isolationist stance but, let anyone but a lib suggest that, and libs wet their panties...

[Sakkola]

I dunno but Isolationist/Militaristic sounds like a false dilemma/dichotomy to me.

[icedrakona]

Wow.

Just when I think you have reached the pinnacle of posting stupidity, you best yourself...

He should not be there, period. This country gets absolutely no benefit from him being there. Morons think that he is taking care of the "turrism" problem there, but he's not. The best way to prevent "turrism" is to actually have our borders and coastlines seriously defended, for once. The National Guard and Coast Guard can do those things.

Perhaps all that is true. Perhaps it's not. The fact of the matter is that he's "the military", and you refer to him as a thief...

[/quote]You want me to give a huge fraction of what I earn to wasteful cocksuckers[/quote]

If you want to discuss illegal immigrants, we should probably do that in a separate thread...

and then when I protest, you tell me that my criticism isn't valid because I have "absolutely zero experience in anything regarding the military." How about we give NASA 500 billion dollars a year, and then when you protest, I'll give you a taste of your own medicine and ask to see your PhD in a related science. It's entirely possible to be critical of something without being learned on the topic. It's quite another, though, to expect that criticism to be accepted over that of people who actually know about the topic...

Yeah, just like when you bitched about NASA smashing a probe into the Moon to look for water there. Where is your PhD in Physics, Astronomy, Geology, or anything remotely related to any of those fields? See above.

You come across as though your plan is the only way to go, and you're dismissive of those who know better...

You turn hypocrisy into a nauseating habit. When do you plan on ceasing all criticism of all government spending that does not pertain to your area of expertise? I'm more than willing to allow those who actually know what they're talking about to have the final word. You are not. Your profound ignorance permits that...

You worship the military I hold them in high esteem, but I certainly don't "worship" anything. You should be a fan of the military. AFter all, it's through their efforts that you're able to show the world the high level of ignorance you possess...

which is loaded with Bible thumping freaks, and which is supported by tens of millions of Bible thumping freaks. That makes Bible thumping freaks very much your peeps. I don't have "peeps". Then again, I'm not 15 years old, either.

In my 20 year career, I think I met four "Bible thumpers". They were all chaplains.

If you think the military is "loaded with Bible thumping freaks", then that only further goes to highlight your ignorance.

It's not...

So, should Congress, or shouldn't Congress, listen to the thoughts of people who want to cut military spending, whether or not they are veterans? I sure the fuck hope they don't listen to you...

You have a habit of making empty assertions, perpetually angry man. Hardly angry.

More amused right now than anything else...

You're the one who delights in collateral damage as long as the people aren't US citizens. Where did I do that?

[Ceriopal]

Your immaturity dictates that you like to try to make your opponent play guessing games, like an 11 year old girl would do. Specify exactly what they could do that would allow them to prevail with my proposed cuts, or else you forfeit for being full of shit and unwilling to be man enough to back up your assertions with specific details.

There will be absolutely no need for moronic wars, like the ones Dumbya started I have passion for defeating thieving scum You want me to give a huge fraction of what I earn to wasteful cocksuckers You turn hypocrisy into a nauseating habit You worship the military, which is loaded with Bible thumping freaks, and which is supported by tens of millions of Bible thumping freaks. That makes Bible thumping freaks very much your peeps It is time to get tough with those parasitic, murderous cock suckers You criticizing anyone for alleged immaturity is funny.

It's also both retarded and hypocritical, but it's mostly funny.

Well, maybe mostly retarded...

[ApporpSothe]

Cut off all foreign aid, and everything we spend on illegal scumbag aliens in this country, and I'd be more than willing to discuss reasonable and effective cuts in military spending...

[teodaschwartia]

steve
when i said i have never met a bible thumper in the military i didnt even think of the chaplains, and even the ones i have met i would not consider bible thumpers because they where there for anyone no matter what the religion or lack of belief a person held.

[HQTheodore]

Since some people don't seem to be grasping my point about a country with the USA's geographic advantage not needing large standing ground forces, and since a lot of people need to see simple pictures in order for even simple ideas to sink in, I am providing this:

Those "Big Assed Oceans" were highways for invaders until the 1940's, and with Stealth ships may become so again. You are right about us needing no big ground forces though. I think a reasonable case could be made for nobody really needing such at all in the modern world.

Well, that particular plan won't work, but your premise that the Pentagon budget can be massively cut is legit.
The defense of the United States can be accomplished for a lot less than we spend today. But the key is to re-envision the US, not as the worlds policeman, but as a citizen of the world, without an overseas agenda. Changing the world by our example of a free people enjoying the fruits of their labor, not a people laboring to outfit the most expensive military the world has ever seen.

Quoted for truth. Why should we have to force people to be like us if we have such a great system?

Doing what unclass suggests would effectively result in us adopting an isolationist stance but, let anyone but a lib suggest that, and libs wet their panties...

What's so bad about isolationism? George Washington said we should "avoid entangling alliances" and I think that remains good advice. America was isolationist in most of the 19thc and has been international in most of the 20th, notice the difference?

[xanaxnewtrader]

Cut off all foreign aid, and everything we spend on illegal scumbag aliens in this country, and I'd be more than willing to discuss reasonable and effective cuts in military spending...

You're not going to stipulate we cancel Social Security first too?