[aNoBVsUW]

HEADLINE: Pew Poll: Majority of Muslims supports death for anyone leaving Islam



OVERVIEW: In a new poll by Pew, a shocking majority of Muslims says they support killing any person who wants to convert to anything other than Islam.This poll proves that many Muslims are dangerous and sick.



LINK: Pew Poll: Majority of Muslims supports death for anyone leaving Islam - Vancouver American Politics | Examiner.com


I like these kinds of polls because they are so vital in proving to the Muslim apologists that many Muslims are radical savages. The best part is that it is MUSLIMS THEMSELVES who are admitting to being fanatics who support murder for no good reason! It would be funny, if it weren't so deadly.

[estheticianI]

......This poll proves that many Muslims are dangerous and sick.


......

Polls have shown that a majority of Americans favour the death penalty.

Does this prove that Americans are dangerous and sick?

Crime

[goldcigarettes]

Polls have shown that a majority of Americans favour the death penalty.

Does this prove that Americans are dangerous and sick?

Crime

You appear to be equating murder (the only crime for which one can receive the death penalty in the US) with leaving Islam.

Does this prove Canadians are unable to differentiate criminal activities from non-criminal activities?

(or, perhaps, it proves nothing save that trying to make sweeping generalizations like those above is just idiocy?)

[bgsavings]

Here's an extract from the actual poll:

Opposition to whippings and cutting off of hands for crimes like theft and robbery and to the death penalty for people who leave Islam is even more widespread in these three countries; 86% of Muslims in Lebanon, 82% in Turkey and 61% in Indonesia are against making harsh punishments for robbery and theft the law in their countries, and 93%, 91% and 64%, respectively, object to the death penalty against those who leave the Muslim religion.

Yawn.

[italertb]

I think if anything this poll shows the diversity of opinion within Islam. You can actually read the poll HERE but here's the quick breakdown with regard to harsh laws and death for converting:



As you can see, it changes drastically from country to country.

So, on the one hand, the title of this thread is extremely deceitful (or at least mistaken). The majority of Muslims in some countries support such harsh measures. However, there is only marginal support for them in other countries. Pew doesn't seem to provide an overall ratio, nor do I see how one would be terribly useful.

On the other hand, this hardly seems like a "yawn" moment. Egypt, Pakistan, and Jordan are among the key allies to the West, and yet their numbers on this topic are extremely bad. It's a boring report only if you were already familiar with the massive support for killing converts in these nations. I wasn't.

[Jenisoisy]

HEADLINE: Pew Poll: Majority of Muslims supports death for anyone leaving Islam



OVERVIEW: In a new poll by Pew, a shocking majority of Muslims says they support killing any person who wants to convert to anything other than Islam.This poll proves that many Muslims are dangerous and sick.



LINK: Pew Poll: Majority of Muslims supports death for anyone leaving Islam - Vancouver American Politics | Examiner.com


I like these kinds of polls because they are so vital in proving to the Muslim apologists that many Muslims are radical savages. The best part is that it is MUSLIMS THEMSELVES who are admitting to being fanatics who support murder for no good reason! It would be funny, if it weren't so deadly.

They had to take a poll to determine this?

[anenselog]

Wonder why Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Iran were not included? Could not do the poll there?

I think the poll reflects the trouble in eradicating the radicals. It just reinforced what I had already figured out a long time ago. Hopefully we have the more moderate Muslims here in the States, and we can civilize a few of them.

[boizzones]

Majority of Muslims?

Well, that's very democratic! What's the problem? Do you love democracy only when it suits you?

[Cibirrigmavog]

I think if anything this poll shows the diversity of opinion within Islam. You can actually read the poll HERE but here's the quick breakdown with regard to harsh laws and death for converting:



As you can see, it changes drastically from country to country.

So, on the one hand, the title of this thread is extremely deceitful (or at least mistaken). The majority of Muslims in some countries support such harsh measures. However, there is only marginal support for them in other countries. Pew doesn't seem to provide an overall ratio, nor do I see how one would be terribly useful.

On the other hand, this hardly seems like a "yawn" moment. Egypt, Pakistan, and Jordan are among the key allies to the West, and yet their numbers on this topic are extremely bad. It's a boring report only if you were already familiar with the massive support for killing converts in these nations. I wasn't.

It's a yawn moment in the sense that the OP is involved in the archetypical right wing disinformation about Islam. Islam is as diverse as Christianity and what better to illustrate that than the actual poll upon which the OP is allegedly based.

Either the OP knowingly distorts the poll or the OP stupidly copies some Islamophobic shite from a blog without even consulting the poll. Either is typical of a certain mentality that is reminiscent of earlier such eras and it's that part that gets boring quickly.

As for the numbers themselves -which are actually outside of the scope of the OP- it's clear that secularization in Islam (see Turkey) has been as effective as it has been in Christianity in order to get rid of the antediluvian ideas that exist in all the revelationary religions.

I have to wonder though what the exact question is that was posed. When one compares the part of the poll you linked with this:



we have in Jordan 81% of the population supporting democracy while at the same time 86% that would favour the death penalty for abdicating Islam. That doesn't make much sense, does it ? Either of the questions must have been phrased in a way that the apparent contradiction wasn't such for the interviewee.

Another result that causes frowns about the methodology is the huge disparity between Jordan and Lebanon (86 vs. 6%). That is very strange given the many similarities and proximity between the countries.

[amannddo]

It's a yawn moment in the sense that the OP is involved in the archetypical right wing disinformation about Islam. Islam is as diverse as Christianity and what better to illustrate that than the actual poll upon which the OP is allegedly based.

Either the OP knowingly distorts the poll or the OP stupidly copies some Islamophobic shite from a blog without even consulting the poll. Either is typical of a certain mentality that is reminiscent of earlier such eras and it's that part that gets boring quickly.

As for the numbers themselves -which are actually outside of the scope of the OP- it's clear that secularization in Islam (see Turkey) has been as effective as it has been in Christianity in order to get rid of the antediluvian ideas that exist in all the revelationary religions.

Oh, no doubt the OP presented an extremely biased view.

But I thought the data itself was interesting and, in some respects, distressing.

I have to wonder though what the exact question is that was posed. When one compares the part of the poll you linked with this:



we have in Jordan 81% of the population supporting democracy while at the same time 86% that would favour the death penalty for abdicating Islam. That doesn't make much sense, does it ? Either of the questions must have been phrased in a way that the apparent contradiction wasn't such for the interviewee.

I'm not sure there's any inherent contradiction there. If a large enough majority of the population wants the death penalty for abdicating Islam, then that's exactly what a democratic government will enact. In fact, the more democratic the government the more assuredly and quickly it will enact such a law.

I don't think there's anything in democracy that's inherently tolerant of dissent or diversity. In a system in which power comes primarily from having a majority agree with you, it makes a certain amount of sense that the punishment for radically deviating from the cultural/social/religious norm would be particularly harsh.

[pinawinekolad]

Oh, no doubt the OP presented an extremely biased view.

But I thought the data itself was interesting and, in some respects, distressing.



I'm not sure there's any inherent contradiction there. If a large enough majority of the population wants the death penalty for abdicating Islam, then that's exactly what a democratic government will enact. In fact, the more democratic the government the more assuredly and quickly it will enact such a law.

I don't think there's anything in democracy that's inherently tolerant of dissent or diversity. In a system in which power comes primarily from having a majority agree with you, it makes a certain amount of sense that the punishment for radically deviating from the cultural/social/religious norm would be particularly harsh.

Well, a pure democracy is basically a mobocracy IMO. So it would make sense.

[naturaherbal]

we have in Jordan 81% of the population supporting democracy while at the same time 86% that would favour the death penalty for abdicating Islam. That doesn't make much sense, does it ? Either of the questions must have been phrased in a way that the apparent contradiction wasn't such for the interviewee.

Sorry, no. You're reasoning, in this case is flawed. Democracy does not preclude favoring the DP for someone who leaves Islam.

[Japakefrope]

HEADLINE: Pew Poll: Majority of Muslims supports death for anyone leaving Islam

OVERVIEW: In a new poll by Pew, a shocking majority of Muslims says they support killing any person who wants to convert to anything other than Islam.This poll proves that many Muslims are dangerous and sick.

LINK: Pew Poll: Majority of Muslims supports death for anyone leaving Islam - Vancouver American Politics | Examiner.com

I like these kinds of polls because they are so vital in proving to the Muslim apologists that many Muslims are radical savages. The best part is that it is MUSLIMS THEMSELVES who are admitting to being fanatics who support murder for no good reason! It would be funny, if it weren't so deadly.

There was no qualitative explanation in the link (or any of the associated links) about the survey that was undertaken, so a better title would have been "majority of polled Muslims support death..." I bet if I took a poll in the heartland of fundamentalist Christian Alabama or Mississippi, and asked the question "do you support death for homosexuals", the result would result in a majority affirmative too. Does that mean I could use those poll results to associate it with all Christians?

[Stasher11]

There was no qualitative explanation in the link (or any of the associated links) about the survey that was undertaken, so a better title would have been "majority of polled Muslims support death..." I bet if I took a poll in the heartland of fundamentalist Christian Alabama or Mississippi, and asked the question "do you support death for homosexuals", the result would result in a majority affirmative too. Does that mean I could use those poll results to associate it with all Christians?

So you're equating an unsupported claim to an actual poll? Hmmmm....

[adariseediups]

So you're equating an unsupported claim to an actual poll? Hmmmm....

No, I did say that I couldn't see any reference to the detail of the poll (although I may have missed it in my reading). I prefer to know a bit about the poll before taking its findings as gospel, eg how many people were surveyed? Where were they surveyed etc? I'm sure if you polled 1 person in central Kabul and that person agreed with the premise, then you'd have a poll that shows that 100% of people support it ... it's hardly representative though, hence the desire to know more about the qualitative context.

[wiweimeli]

Democracy does not preclude favoring the DP for someone who leaves Islam.

Democracy is a rule of majority.
So, aparently it does.

[Liskaspexia]

Democracy is a rule of majority.
So, aparently it does.

Unless the majority think you should get the death penalty for leaving Islam, hence the logic flaw.

[Pataacculako]

I prefer to know a bit about the poll before taking its findings as gospel, eg how many people were surveyed? Where were they surveyed etc? I'm sure if you polled 1 person in central Kabul and that person agreed with the premise, then you'd have a poll that shows that 100% of people support it ... it's hardly representative though, hence the desire to know more about the qualitative context.

Here is a link (.pdf) to the complete poll. Methodology can be found starting on page 22. The sample size per country was 1,000 adults--except in Pakistan where it was 2,000.
http://pewglobal.org/files/2010/12/P...ber-2-2010.pdf

And of course nothing in the poll supports the title of this thread.

[lopaayd]

Oh, no doubt the OP presented an extremely biased view.

But I thought the data itself was interesting and, in some respects, distressing.

I'm not sure there's any inherent contradiction there. If a large enough majority of the population wants the death penalty for abdicating Islam, then that's exactly what a democratic government will enact. In fact, the more democratic the government the more assuredly and quickly it will enact such a law.

I don't think there's anything in democracy that's inherently tolerant of dissent or diversity. In a system in which power comes primarily from having a majority agree with you, it makes a certain amount of sense that the punishment for radically deviating from the cultural/social/religious norm would be particularly harsh.

Sorry, no. You're reasoning, in this case is flawed. Democracy does not preclude favoring the DP for someone who leaves Islam.

That depends on whether one uses the narrow or the broad definition of the word. The broad one integrates a number of concepts outside of the narrow meaning of voter participation such as basic human rights, gender equality and so on. If one looks at the map here you will notice that there are only a handful of countries in the world that are democratic in the broad sense but nevertheless support the death penalty. None of these are Arabic though.

If one's distressed by these results the place to look for an explanation is the vast difference between Jordan and Lebanon which is rather stunning as both countries have a similar history in lawmaking (a mixture of traditions, Islamic and European codes) and are both predominantly Sunni's of the Shafi'i school. There must be some local specific difference in play here. At first I suspected it had to do with the language in which the poll was taken but the link provided by Mandrake makes it clear that the question are put in the local language of the interviewees.

Figuring out the origin of this specific difference would go a long way in explaining why there are still such harsh notions present in parts of the Islamic world I think.

[joanbertis]

I'm glad Disciples of Christ Don't do that.