[gettoblaster]

Is this statement a threat? This is not a GZ mosque thread. I would like to hear a discussion of whether the 'peaceful' iman is making a threat against the US. If he is so peaceful, then why doesn't he delineate himself from the 'radicals' instead of furthering their agenda.

When 9-11 happened, shortly after, we were told repeatedly not to let the terrorists change our way of life. Yet, today, on all sides we are being told that we MUST change our way of life to suit them - all of them - or they will do violence to, not just our soldiers, but US citizens as well. WTF? What happend?

Again, this is NOT about GZ mosque. Hopefully this will be a dialogue about dialogue, rhetoric, threats of violence, US response to those threats 'then and now.' WHY such a change over the last decade? Are we whipped? Does this mean we have lost the 'war on terror' and now must accept dictation from all of islam? If so IS there such a thing as peaceful islam? It sure sounds like the iman is working the agenda of Al Qaida to me.


Moving the project to another location would strengthen Islamist radicals' ability to recruit followers and will likely increase violence against Americans, the imam said. Note, in the article, this is phrased in 2 or 3 different ways. Is this a threat? If so, or if not, then why.

Imam: Handling of Islamic center plan a matter of national security - CNN.com

[SDorothy28]

No, I don't believe it's a threat; I believe it's a statement of fact. The Imam is saying that if the building is moved, some fundamentalists may see it as a slight against Islam. Throughout this whole debate though I don't think we've heard anywhere near enough from 'ordinary' Islams, most of whom I'm sure wouldn't careif it was moved. The "voice" of this issue seems to be sitting with the radical Muslims who are not pushing the matter on the basis of religious freedom, but as a further inducement to violence.

[lapInsalm]

uh...no. it's not a threat because...well because he's not threatening anything. for it to be a threat he would actually have to, i dunno, threaten.

and for god's sake, people, it's IMAM.

[CULTDIAMONDS]

uh...no. it's not a threat because...well because he's not threatening anything. for it to be a threat he would actually have to, i dunno, threaten.

and for god's sake, people, it's IMAM.

Your correction is duly noted. Would you like to be my typist?

[Heessduernbub]

No, I don't believe it's a threat; I believe it's a statement of fact. The Imam is saying that if the building is moved, some fundamentalists may see it as a slight against Islam. Throughout this whole debate though I don't think we've heard anywhere near enough from 'ordinary' Islams, most of whom I'm sure wouldn't careif it was moved. The "voice" of this issue seems to be sitting with the radical Muslims who are not pushing the matter on the basis of religious freedom, but as a further inducement to violence.

If this is a statement of fact, then where IS peaceful islam?

[Dkavtbek]

If this is a statement of fact, then where IS peaceful islam?

That's what I was asking. The only Muslims we seem to be hearing in the media these days are the radical fundamentalists, and as a result the general population believes that all Muslims think like these people. To put it another way, many of the radicals we hear from are the Muslim equivalent to Jerry Falwell and the radical Christian right, but because we don't know enough about the religion, we assume these people speak for all people; just as we know that the radical Christians don't speak for all Christians. I too would like to know why Muslims aren't speaking out against these radicals.

[AdSuiteAdobe]

That's what I was asking. The only Muslims we seem to be hearing in the media these days are the radical fundamentalists, and as a result the general population believes that all Muslims think like these people. To put it another way, many of the radicals we hear from are the Muslim equivalent to Jerry Falwell and the radical Christian right, but because we don't know enough about the religion, we assume these people speak for all people; just as we know that the radical Christians don't speak for all Christians. I too would like to know why Muslims aren't speaking out against these radicals.

What would be your conjecture on this?

[Tribas4u]

Oh course it is. He is threatening us with additional islamic terrorists if he doesn't get his way.

[Qeiafib]

What would be your conjecture on this?

I'm not sure what you're trying to get it, or what it is you're trying to get me to say?

[aAaBecker]

I'm not sure what you're trying to get it, or what it is you're trying to get me to say?

Not trying to 'get you to say' anything. I'm just wondering why it is that all we hear is this type of rhetoric even from our own politicians after we were told that we should not change our way of life. Why are we suddenly getting nothing but 'do it our way or get hurt/killed' rhetoric? This is a drastic change from immediately post 9-11.

I mean, there were the Nick Bergs who got beheaded over there. But now, the rhetoric is more immediate and closer to home. Why is that?

Why do they ALL seem to sound like Al Qaida these days? This isn't about political correctness. It seems to be about something else altogether. I would do a search on the forum archives and post some examples as I suspect the talk there was no different than on any other forum. But my user name and password don't work and I don't want to read that much just to dig ou a few posts.

[PlayboyAtWork]

It might seem like a threat to people with poor reading comprehension skills.

[pavlik]

I don't see it so much as a threat from Imam Rolf as acknowledgment of a the real threat of radical Islam. The radicals will look for any excuse to portray America as the great Satan. The problem is that we would rather Rolf move his building a suitable distance from Ground Zero and Islamic extremists would rather behead journalists.

[Faungarne]

I don't see it so much as a threat from Imam Rolf as acknowledgment of a the real threat of radical Islam. The radicals will look for any excuse to portray America as the great Satan. The problem is that we would rather Rolf move his building a suitable distance from Ground Zero and Islamic extremists would rather behead journalists.

So by asking for something unreasonable, and not getting it, he can manufacture another outrage.

[Mumeseest]

To put it another way, many of the radicals we hear from are the Muslim equivalent to Jerry Falwell and the radical Christian right, ....

Radical Islamic terrorists are the equivalent of Jerry Falwell?

That is taking political correctness to the point of lunacy and beyond.

Do you really believe this weird nonsense?

[TobaccoNUE]

Is this statement a threat? This is not a GZ mosque thread. I would like to hear a discussion of whether the 'peaceful' iman is making a threat against the US. If he is so peaceful, then why doesn't he delineate himself from the 'radicals' instead of furthering their agenda.

When 9-11 happened, shortly after, we were told repeatedly not to let the terrorists change our way of life. Yet, today, on all sides we are being told that we MUST change our way of life to suit them - all of them - or they will do violence to, not just our soldiers, but US citizens as well. WTF? What happend?

Again, this is NOT about GZ mosque. Hopefully this will be a dialogue about dialogue, rhetoric, threats of violence, US response to those threats 'then and now.' WHY such a change over the last decade? Are we whipped? Does this mean we have lost the 'war on terror' and now must accept dictation from all of islam? If so IS there such a thing as peaceful islam? It sure sounds like the iman is working the agenda of Al Qaida to me.




Note, in the article, this is phrased in 2 or 3 different ways. Is this a threat? If so, or if not, then why.

Imam: Handling of Islamic center plan a matter of national security - CNN.com

I don't think so. He's merely pointing out how extremists spin the real facts or even falsify them to gain an edge.

For example, earlier in the Afghan conflict, the Taliban spread rumours that American forces had desecrated Qu'rans and had even thrown a dead dog into a mosque. It was totally false, but they love stirring the pot to make people believe that the US is anti-Muslim. They also spin any facts that help them. Anti-Muslim sentiments, even by a few exceptions, is spun to make it seem like it's a rule for Americans. They'll spin the moving of the Park51 project as a triumph of anti-Muslim sentiments rather than an objection to the location itself due to sensitivity to what occurred there whereby they'll profit even moreso by the crimes they committed there on 9.11.

It's also important to note that many people in poor regions get their information sources from toxic sources and don't understand what's really going on in the US in any detail or understand how it works. For example, many poor Afghans don't realise that the POTUS and the rest of the US government doesn't have the constitutional power to stop burning of Qu'rans given their own system and way of life. Things like limited government, civil rights, etc, simply hasn't exist in their world and it's something that the UN force there is only now trying to introduce. The Taliban, AQ and other extremists have no problem whatsoever allowing the local people to have erroneous understandings and spin incidents to make it seem that: 1) the US is anti-Muslim, and 2) the government and people are just fine in allowing it and fostering it in deeds.

[kranskregyan]

So by asking for something unreasonable, and not getting it, he can manufacture another outrage.

Pretty much. He either gets his islamic victory symbol or more suicide bombers.

[teergoBissono]

That's what I was asking. The only Muslims we seem to be hearing in the media these days are the radical fundamentalists, and as a result the general population believes that all Muslims think like these people. To put it another way, many of the radicals we hear from are the Muslim equivalent to Jerry Falwell and the radical Christian right, but because we don't know enough about the religion, we assume these people speak for all people; just as we know that the radical Christians don't speak for all Christians. I too would like to know why Muslims aren't speaking out against these radicals.

WHAT???? I may be wrong, but I don't recall reading about Reverend Falwell crashing a plane into a building full of people.
To equate a Christian radical like Falwell to Islamic radicals is comparing a sneeze to a category 5 hurricane.

[PheliarearY]

So by asking for something unreasonable, and not getting it, he can manufacture another outrage.

Freedom to worship and equal treatment under the law is not an unreasonable demand.


The Imam is right. I don't believe in catering our PR towards not offending mass-murdering shitheads, it just would take an idiot to not see that allowing mob rule/thuggery against muslim Americans to go on will help create conditions that would enable terrorist recruitment.

They got their building plan approved, went through the economic transactions, and made a commitment. If they back down now it would be like them admitting that "yes, Islam should be ashamed in the U.S."

I don't think the religion of Islam has anything to be ashamed of, especially regarding American citizens and legal residents who practice the faith. If they're able to buy the property and meet the same requirements any other building project would be held to (equal treatment before the law) there is no reason why they shouldn't build that Islamic Center.

His statement isn't a threat, it is a logical observation that political/religious oppression inspires rebellion.

[MAKEMONEY]

I don't think its a threat. Its really no different than what most national, military, and religious leaders have said themselves over the last few days.

Andrew

[Ebjjrxrd]

Freedom to worship and equal treatment under the law is not an unreasonable demand.


The Imam is right. I don't believe in catering our PR towards not offending mass-murdering shitheads, it just would take an idiot to not see that allowing mob rule/thuggery against muslim Americans to go on will help create conditions that would enable terrorist recruitment.

They got their building plan approved, went through the economic transactions, and made a commitment. If they back down now it would be like them admitting that "yes, Islam should be ashamed in the U.S."

I don't think the religion of Islam has anything to be ashamed of, especially regarding American citizens and legal residents who practice the faith. If they're able to buy the property and meet the same requirements any other building project would be held to (equal treatment before the law) there is no reason why they shouldn't build that Islamic Center.

His statement isn't a threat, it is a logical observation that political/religious oppression inspires rebellion.

Islam has plenty to be ashamed of. 19 people who professed to be Muslims flew planes into the WTC, the Pentagon and a field in PA. Had it not been for the bravery of passengers on the latter, that plane very likely would have hit the Capitol or the White House. Before you get all defensive here, I'm not blaming American Muslims for the attacks on 9/11. I am however plenty pissed off that more of them have not spoken out against these horrible acts and many other acts of terrorism around the world.
Here we have an Imam who claims to be a bridge builder, but has placed part of the blame for 9/11 on the United States and refuses to acknowledge that Hamas is a terrorist group. Some bridge builder!
Want to build a bridge between Islam and Us citizens? Don't piss us off and by all means don't take us for fools.
Find a piece of land a mile or so from GZ and build what you want. Just don't try building your monument to victory on the grave of 3,000 souls your "religion of peace" murdered.