[Impariclainna]

Another great opportunity for war being pissed away by fag-boy Obama and his libtarded disciples.

[Grenader]

Another great opportunity for war being pissed away by fag-boy Obama and his libtarded disciples.

Still haven't learned your lesson? Because after 2 failing conflicts one would think that you would have understood the message.

You're only forgetting something: the fact that Iran in contrary to Iraq has a much larger will to win because of their nationalism and religious motives. Do you really want a million basji fighting as insurgents?

The best Obama can do is to just ignore Iran, now they are regarded as the agressors and warmongers. If the US would invade Iran, that would change and it would rally the whole of Iran. Why do you think the Germans fought so hard when the Allies invaded Germany.

[Yinekol]

Then theres no point to the US anymore and it needs to be dissolved.

You're your own country now. Why aren't you doing something to get them back? I bet they'd swear allegiance to you if you did. Population 4!

[Ltftujkg]

So, all Iran has to do is force these hikers to confess and we're all squared away? I think it's pretty easy to tell that in that case and in this one, the arrests and detainment were politically motivated.

Its not easy to tell at all. Do you have any facts about the Pattis case? Read this and tell me if it doesnt sound like he was likely a CIA informant. The govt wouldnt even deny it, just didnt comment.

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/04/23/wo...+pattis&st=nyt

[reaciciomarep]

You're your own country now. Why aren't you doing something to get them back? I bet they'd swear allegiance to you if you did. Population 4!

Im not my own country.

[Pippoles]

Im not my own country.

Well, are you Canadian? Mexican? German? I know you say you're not a US citizen anymore. I wonder if you qualify as an illegal immigrant now.

[Knqzjbmf]

Well, are you Canadian? Mexican? German? I know you say you're not a US citizen anymore. I wonder if you qualify as an illegal immigrant now.

Do you have anything to contribute to the topic?

[letittbe]

Iran: Come for a week, stay for 444 days.

[Si8jy8HN]

Its not easy to tell at all. Do you have any facts about the Pattis case? Read this and tell me if it doesnt sound like he was likely a CIA informant. The govt wouldnt even deny it, just didnt comment.

Iran Gives American 10-Year Sentence for Spying - NYTimes.com

Iran was at war with Iraq at the time and we were supporting Iraq. The guy was a political tool, he only served half his sentence. You think Iran is going to let someone off on good behavior for spying? A country where spying will get one the death penalty?

Pattis and the other American were accused of spying back in the 80's. While I don't remember if the charges were ever actually brought, I do recall threats to accuse those 15 British soldiers of spying. Roxana Saberi was recently accused of spying. These hikers are accused of spying. See a pattern? Either everyone sends their worst spies to Iran, Iran is really good at finding spies, or Iran just accuses everyone with western ties as a spy.

[AntonayPina]

Either everyone sends their worst spies to Iran, Iran is really good at finding spies, or Iran just accuses everyone with western ties as a spy.

Well, intelligence agencies are also collecting reports from the likes of journalists for example and Saberi WAS working as a journalist without beeing formally accredited in Iran, if I remember correctly. So the spying charge might not be as absurd as you make it to be. And what business these hikers really had climbing around in the disputed border area of a conflict zone I don´t think is completely clear either, since all sides concerned may have a motive to lie.
The majority of western spies are not caught on a regular base though, I suppose........

[truck]

Well, intelligence agencies are also collecting reports from the likes of journalists for example and Saberi WAS working as a journalist without beeing formally accredited in Iran, if I remember correctly. So the spying charge might not be as absurd as you make it to be. And what business these hikers really had climbing around in the disputed border area of a conflict zone I don´t think is completely clear either, since all sides concerned may have a motive to lie.

I would be more surprised to learn that western powers didn't have people working for them in Iran. However, if you want an effective spy in Iran, you would find an Iranian who's sympathetic to the west. Sending three Americans to cross a heavily patrolled border is a pretty ridiculous way to send spies in. Sending an American contractor in while we're supporting a country Iran is at war with is also a pretty ridiculous way to get a spy in.
The majority of western spies are not caught on a regular base though, I suppose........ Right, and it's pretty unusual that Iran seems to find a spy every other year. Sort of like North Korea.

Speaking of which (and not to get off topic), I'm wondering where jviehe's outrage is over the American who's currently serving eight years of hard labor in North Korea...

Aijalon Mahli Gomes, from Boston, attempted to kill himself and was being treated at a hospital, according to North Korea's official Korean Central News Agency.

According to the news agency, the attempt was "driven by his strong guilty conscience" and despair that the US government has not tried to gain his freedom. American held in North Korea attempts suicide - Telegraph

[layevymed]

You have got to read the details. Gomes purposefully went into North Korea illegaly. He knowingly committed a criminal act knowing what the consequences would be. Apples to Oranges. Which is not to say NK isnt being harsh. But the hikers in Iran were doing nothing more than being negligent. We have a far better case for getting them released. You might remember I likewise defended NK on the two journalists who did the same thing last year.

[ManHolDenPoker]

You have got to read the details. Gomes purposefully went into North Korea illegaly. He knowingly committed a criminal act knowing what the consequences would be. Apples to Oranges. Which is not to say NK isnt being harsh. But the hikers in Iran were doing nothing more than being negligent. We have a far better case for getting them released. You might remember I likewise defended NK on the two journalists who did the same thing last year.

Do you really believe that Gomes faced a fair trial and that his crime is deserving of eight years of hard labor in an enemy country? Do you see any justice in that? I agree that what he did was illegal, but he should be returned here to the US to face charges in a fair setting.

The hikers weren't being "negligent". Hiking on the border of a country that is in a war zone and another country that has a long history of hating our guts isn't "negligent". It's absolutely unacceptable. These hikers should also be returned to the US, I agree, but upon return they should face criminal charges for putting the US in such an unfavorable diplomatic situation. For someone who dislikes Iran, you sure do have a lot of sympathy for people who give them what they want on a silver platter.

[BDDkDvgZ]

Right. The Iranians no doubt want something in return. Given the amount of time they have held on to these hikers I believe these hikers are simply not worth the price in America's eyes.

You have to remember, we are dealing with a foreign country. They may take as long or as short to decide the issue as they wish. They have no constitutional right to a speedy trial there.

And more then likely they are being held for some kind of political concession. But I place a lot of the blame on this incident on the individuals being held.

I mean, come on. Peacefully hiking through a war zone? Next to a nation that has even kidnapped and help British soldiers simply because it wanted to?

They may be innocent, and they may have been taken from the Iraqi side of the border. But they were still flaming 'tards to put themselves in that situation in the first place.

[seatlyled]

You have to remember, we are dealing with a foreign country. They may take as long or as short to decide the issue as they wish. They have no constitutional right to a speedy trial there.

And more then likely they are being held for some kind of political concession. But I place a lot of the blame on this incident on the individuals being held.

I mean, come on. Peacefully hiking through a war zone? Next to a nation that has even kidnapped and help British soldiers simply because it wanted to?

They may be innocent, and they may have been taken from the Iraqi side of the border. But they were still flaming 'tards to put themselves in that situation in the first place.

Hey man, preaching to the choir here.

[objennasweene]

Do you really believe that Gomes faced a fair trial and that his crime is deserving of eight years of hard labor in an enemy country? Do you see any justice in that? I agree that what he did was illegal, but he should be returned here to the US to face charges in a fair setting.

The hikers weren't being "negligent". Hiking on the border of a country that is in a war zone and another country that has a long history of hating our guts isn't "negligent". It's absolutely unacceptable. These hikers should also be returned to the US, I agree, but upon return they should face criminal charges for putting the US in such an unfavorable diplomatic situation. For someone who dislikes Iran, you sure do have a lot of sympathy for people who give them what they want on a silver platter.

It doesnt matter that Gomes didnt face a fair trial. NK gets to run its country how it sees fit, and Gomes knew that going in. The hikers, however, did nothing wrong. And its not a criminal offence to "put the us in a unfavorable political position".

[Seilehogshell]

Does the US have a policy to hold people accountable for costs they create for example if the governement has to come to their rescue for their own neglicence ? ( like if beeing held by a foreign country after caught hiking in a warzone f.e. ? )
Germany has introduced such a policy a couple of years ago and since then the numbers of people who wanted to go hiking in the colombian mountains or went on motorcycle tours through Afghanistan, were kidnapped and needed to be bailed out at a high cost has dramatically gone down. Since you know in advance that diplomats will try to bring you home but that they will present you with a huge bill afterwards.........

[sarasmid]

You have to remember, we are dealing with a foreign country. They may take as long or as short to decide the issue as they wish. They have no constitutional right to a speedy trial there.

And more then likely they are being held for some kind of political concession. But I place a lot of the blame on this incident on the individuals being held.

I mean, come on. Peacefully hiking through a war zone? Next to a nation that has even kidnapped and help British soldiers simply because it wanted to?

They may be innocent, and they may have been taken from the Iraqi side of the border. But they were still flaming 'tards to put themselves in that situation in the first place.

And none of that matters. The US govt has a duty to protect their lives, and they arent doing it. That they are essentially being kidnapped by an enemy makes it so much easier for us to use whatever means neccesary to get them released. We simply dont have the type of leaders who can do that.

[stoneeZef]

It doesnt matter that Gomes didnt face a fair trial. NK gets to run its country how it sees fit, and Gomes knew that going in. The hikers, however, did nothing wrong. And its not a criminal offence to "put the us in a unfavorable political position".

How do you know the hikers did nothing wrong, were you there? It doesnt matter that the hikers are being detained indefiniately. Iran gets to run its country how it sees fit, and these hikers knew that when they decided it would be a great idea to hike along their heavily patrolled (and often disputed) border.

[hexniks]

How do you know the hikers did nothing wrong, were you there? It doesnt matter that the hikers are being detained indefiniately. Iran gets to run its country how it sees fit, and these hikers knew that when they decided it would be a great idea to hike along their heavily patrolled (and often disputed) border.

Yes, I was there, and they did nothing wrong. And we get to run our country as we see fit too, which in this case means using any means neccesary to stop a foreign country from cruel and unusual punishment. A year detention for a mistake is cruel. 8 years hard labor for purposefuly invading a foreign country is not.