[12dargernswearf]

Ok, not really, but thats the headline youll see. Today Obama gave yet another speech, during we he blamed others for all the bad, and claimed credit for all the good happening in Iraq.

Now, one of those chapters is nearing an end. As a candidate for President, I pledged to bring the war in Iraq to a responsible end. Shortly after taking office, I announced our new strategy for Iraq and for a transition to full Iraqi responsibility. And I made it clear that by August 31, 2010 America’s combat mission in Iraq would end. And that is exactly what we are doing—as promised, on schedule.

Already, we have closed or turned over to Iraq hundreds of bases.

We’re moving out millions of pieces of equipment in one of the largest logistics operations that we’ve seen in decades. By the end of this month, we’ll have brought more than 90,000 of our troops home from Iraq since I took office—more than 90,000. He goes on to say how well keep 50,000 transitional forces there to do nothing more than train and see the sights. Yes this is what theyve been doing for years, and it still resembles an Army. 50,000 troops in Iraq, thousands more offshore and next door. SO, its not really an honest evaluation of whats going on. And of course, hes simply executing Bush's last orders. He didnt actually make any decisions himself, though hell certainly act like it was all his doing. Hell will freeze over the day that Obama ever gives Bush any credit or respect for the decision he made which turned Iraq into what it is today, something far better than 10 or 20 years ago.

Text of Obama’s Speech on Iraq - Washington Wire - WSJ

[Affiltavajefe]

Glad to hear it. I'll be the first to give our men and women a thumbs up for doing their job without inserting a partisan jab.

[bpejjssoe]

Ok, not really, but thats the headline youll see. Today Obama gave yet another speech, during we he blamed others for all the bad, and claimed credit for all the good happening in Iraq.



He goes on to say how well keep 50,000 transitional forces there to do nothing more than train and see the sights. Yes this is what theyve been doing for years, and it still resembles an Army. 50,000 troops in Iraq, thousands more offshore and next door. SO, its not really an honest evaluation of whats going on. And of course, hes simply executing Bush's last orders. He didnt actually make any decisions himself, though hell certainly act like it was all his doing. Hell will freeze over the day that Obama ever gives Bush any credit or respect for the decision he made which turned Iraq into what it is today, something far better than 10 or 20 years ago.

Text of Obama’s Speech on Iraq - Washington Wire - WSJ

Wait a sec... GW gave up his job in early 2008. From Spring until he was out of office he just turned his back on most everything, and if you look at the timelines, you will see that GW adopted Barack Obama's campaign platform as his own. The changes GW made in policies were exactly to Obama's plans.

So, please, be sure to give credit where credit is due.

[yK2VgoEI]

lol.. Obama was opposed to the surge ...

[wllsqyuipknczx]

lol.. Obama was opposed to the surge ...

Right, The surge was GW's last Huzzah. It happened in 2007 and was pretty much a failure. By 2008 GW realized his failures and gave up his actions as president and adopted Obama's plan.

[maxtp]

Any credit for success in Iraq and Afghanistan goes to the soldiers wearing the uniform and not some coddled piece of shit president. And yes, that applies to both bush and Obama.

[replicajoy]

Any credit for success in Iraq and Afghanistan goes to the soldiers wearing the uniform and not some coddled piece of shit president. And yes, that applies to both bush and Obama.

Hear, hear!!!!!

[xyupi]

As long as oil is valuable, we will have troops in Iraq.

Anyone that believes otherwise is a fool.

[weO1bVp1]

Any credit for success in Iraq and Afghanistan goes to the soldiers wearing the uniform and not some coddled piece of shit president. And yes, that applies to both bush and Obama.

Do they hold the blame for failure as well?

[huylibizonoff]

Hell will freeze over the day that Obama ever gives Bush any credit or respect for the decision he made which turned Iraq into what it is today, something far better than 10 or 20 years ago.

The same ice storm causing hell to freeze over will also what will result in conservatives giving Obama and the Dems any credit for anything.

Iraq is no better off than it was before the invasion, and in some respects they are worse off. Before the invasion most residents of Baghdad had electricity and running water, now they do not.

The International Red Cross report into humanitarian conditions in Iraq says:
Because of the conflict, millions of Iraqis have insufficient access to clean water, sanitation and health care... http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/htmlall/iraq-report-170308/$file/ICRC-Iraq-report-0308-eng.pdf

In an interview, Dr. Sundus Abass, Director of Women in Leadership Institute in Baghdad says,
Q - Are the conditions for women any different now?

A - Yes, compared to the conditions in 2006-2007, the direct violent threats to women in public have lessened, but the general situation has not improved. Women still face acute shortages of basic services. Widows, in particular, have to deal with this alone. High unemployment rates mean that more women are the primary breadwinners for their families. Also, female prisoners and detainees are still without due processes of justice. Women are also continuously worried that those in power are trying to abolish the Personal Status Law* of 1959. Also, the Iraqi Penal Code still heavily punishes women for crimes of honor and cements the right of a husband to beat his wife and daughters. A number of women are being trafficked. Domestic violence has increased. There are no laws that protect women from this, and there are very few safe shelters for battered women, except for some shelters in Kurdistan. How are Women in Iraq Faring Now? / Library / Issues and Analysis / Home - AWID

This is a very interesting paper presented by Nadje Al-Ali, The Institute of Arab & Islamic Studies, University of Exeter, UK:
Act Together: Women's Action for Iraq
Coming back to present-day Iraq, education and working conditions have deteriorated rapidly. Higher education has virtually collapsed and degrees are worthless in the context of widespread corruption and an uninterrupted exodus of university professors. Monthly salaries in the public sector, which has paradoxically become increasingly staffed by women, have dropped dramatically and do not correspond to high inflation rates and the cost of living.

Despite indisputable political repression in the 1970s and 1980s, the majority of the Iraqi population enjoyed high living standards in the context of an economic boom and rapid development, which were a result of the rise of oil prices and the government’s developmental policies. Although signs of deterioration of living standards started to become evident during the years of the Iran-Iraq war (1980-1988), there seemed to be the prevailing belief that the situation would revert to the better once the war stopped. And while many families lost sons, brothers, fathers, friends and neighbours during this time, life in the cities appeared relatively ‘normal’, with women notably playing a very significant role in public life.
A first hand account by Raed Jarrar of the "improvements" seen by the residents of Iraq:
Iraq: Seven Years of Occupation | CommonDreams.org
In the last seven years, one million Iraqis have been killed and millions more injured and displaced from their homes. The country's infrastructure was destroyed and Iraq's civil society has been severely damaged
Crime rates are on the increase. Many women reported that 10 years ago they used to keep all their doors open and felt totally secure. Now there are numerous accounts of burglaries – often violent ones. The only positive things to have come out of Iraq have been that many US companies have made a lot of money on supplying materials for the war and the farcical reconstruction effort. Some Americans may feel safer too, but I seem to recall that this war was about "liberating the Iraqi's from an evil dictator who threatened the safety of the entire world with his weapons." Well, 7 years later and we're still looking for those weapons. It's a pesky little issue I grant you. I'm sure the Iraqi people go to bed every night thanking the West for "improving" their life by removing their access to health services, education, running water, electricity, etc. Hey, if the US doesn't want to look after the health of its citizens, that's fine, but Iraq is a soverign nation (although many in the US and its govt like to forget that too).

[asharbiq]

As long as oil is valuable, we will have troops in Iraq.

Anyone that believes otherwise is a fool.

Exactly. There are plenty of other countries in the world that have much closer links to terrorism than Iraq did, and plenty of those are run be dictators who do far worse to their people than Saddam did. I wonder if Rawanda and Somalia had oil would the West have been content to let millions of people be slaughtered? I highly doubt it. This invasion has only ever been about money - controlling oil supplies and the revenues that flow from it, and the massive revenues generated from supplying the war and the reconstruction following the blitz. All the rest was a smokescreen to convince a population in awe of their govt to blindly go along with the invasion of a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 at all, and rape it for everything it has. I predict that history will only regard this period and those involved, even more shamefully.

[Chooriwrocaey]

Exactly. There are plenty of other countries in the world that have much closer links to terrorism than Iraq did, and plenty of those are run be dictators who do far worse to their people than Saddam did. I wonder if Rawanda and Somalia had oil would the West have been content to let millions of people be slaughtered? I highly doubt it. This invasion has only ever been about money - controlling oil supplies and the revenues that flow from it, and the massive revenues generated from supplying the war and the reconstruction following the blitz. All the rest was a smokescreen to convince a population in awe of their govt to blindly go along with the invasion of a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 at all, and rape it for everything it has. I predict that history will only regard this period and those involved, even more shamefully.

Actually, it is not about money. We can print all of the paper "money" that we want. It is about oil, and the national security interest that it represents.

The idealist in you is correct to rail about the U.S. securing Iraqi oil based upon a dubious link to 9/11, and possible WMDs. The realist in you should be damned glad that we did secure Iraqi oil, however. After all, you Aussies are long standing allies, and it will certainly play out better for you if we control Iraqi oil rather than the Chinese or Russians.

[ManituIKOL]

The same ice storm causing hell to freeze over will also what will result in conservatives giving Obama and the Dems any credit for anything.

Iraq is no better off than it was before the invasion, and in some respects they are worse off. Before the invasion most residents of Baghdad had electricity and running water, now they do not.

The International Red Cross report into humanitarian conditions in Iraq says:

http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/htmlall/iraq-report-170308/$file/ICRC-Iraq-report-0308-eng.pdf

In an interview, Dr. Sundus Abass, Director of Women in Leadership Institute in Baghdad says,

How are Women in Iraq Faring Now? / Library / Issues and Analysis / Home - AWID

This is a very interesting paper presented by Nadje Al-Ali, The Institute of Arab & Islamic Studies, University of Exeter, UK:
Act Together: Women's Action for Iraq



A first hand account by Raed Jarrar of the "improvements" seen by the residents of Iraq:
Iraq: Seven Years of Occupation | CommonDreams.org


The only positive things to have come out of Iraq have been that many US companies have made a lot of money on supplying materials for the war and the farcical reconstruction effort. Some Americans may feel safer too, but I seem to recall that this war was about "liberating the Iraqi's from an evil dictator who threatened the safety of the entire world with his weapons." Well, 7 years later and we're still looking for those weapons. It's a pesky little issue I grant you. I'm sure the Iraqi people go to bed every night thanking the West for "improving" their life by removing their access to health services, education, running water, electricity, etc. Hey, if the US doesn't want to look after the health of its citizens, that's fine, but Iraq is a soverign nation (although many in the US and its govt like to forget that too).

George Bush: "He (Saddam) tried to kill my daddy."

[markshome23]

Wait a sec... GW gave up his job in early 2008. From Spring until he was out of office he just turned his back on most everything, and if you look at the timelines, you will see that GW adopted Barack Obama's campaign platform as his own. The changes GW made in policies were exactly to Obama's plans.

So, please, be sure to give credit where credit is due.

Its well known that Bush brought in Obama and McCain during the election to get breifings on what was going on in Iraq, that Bush's team negotiated the strategic agreement which Obama is following, and that the actual plans this draw down were Bush, and quietly passed on to Obama, who used them and took credit (as Bush wanted). This all came out about 6 months after. Obama has basically been a Iraq caretaker, not a commander. On both missions, he barely mentions them or appears to give them any thought. Now, hes willing to take credit for success, even though he didnt do anything. And you wont see Bush saying anything about it, because thats how he is.

[viagraman]

Any credit for success in Iraq and Afghanistan goes to the soldiers wearing the uniform and not some coddled piece of shit president. And yes, that applies to both bush and Obama.

We are talking about political credit here, not military.

[hieklyintinee]

I can see no success in Iraq, only less failure. The fact that the chickenhaws have started celebrating less failure tells much about the outcome of Indiana George's Iraq Adventures.

[bactrimtab]

If I remember it was Bush that set the time line for scheduled troop withdrawal. In fact the time line was made with Iraq's input. Now Obama takes all the credit, after he said the surge would not work. This guy is a real piece of work.

WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama on Monday declared that at month's end the U.S. will end its combat mission in Iraq "as promised and on schedule," and he pledged to veterans, "Your country is going to take care of you when you come home."

Obama's remarks were designed to remind voters that he's fulfilling his pledge to end the U.S. war in Iraq , one of the biggest issues of his 2008 election victory. He's also trying to rouse voters to support Democrats in congressional and state elections this November.

His remarks were somewhat muted however, as the U.S. transition occurs without a new Iraqi coalition government in place five months after elections were held there and growing doubts back home about the U.S. war in Afghanistan , where violence is at an all time high.

The president doesn't face re-election until 2012, but as head of the Democratic Party he's been shifting toward campaign mode for this November's races. Obama also is looking to boost his own job approval ratings, which have been stuck below 50 percent all summer, by touting his accomplishments. Last week, he traveled to Michigan to promote his administration's bailout of the U.S. auto industry as a success, telling Chrysler and GM workers that without the federal intervention 1 million more jobs would have disappeared.

His speech on Monday to the Disabled American Veterans at a conference in Atlanta likewise aimed to show his administration's progress toward fulfilling his campaign pledge to get U.S. troops out of Iraq , though rhetorically he had a more nuanced case to make.

Having once called the Iraq war "dumb" and having run for president pledging to end the war, Obama wants to take credit for ending the combat mission while praising the troops' achievements. He said, "Because of the sacrifices of our troops and their Iraqi partners, violence in Iraq continues to be near the lowest it's been in years."

Obama takes credit for ending U.S. combat mission in Iraq - Yahoo! News

[Alexunda]

If I remember it was Bush that set the time line for scheduled troop withdrawal. In fact the time line was made with Iraq's input. Now Obama takes all the credit, after he said the surge would not

Um, as I remember, it was Bush who constantly rejected calls for a deadline.

[SHpuntik]

Threads merged.