[Ad0i89Od]

Not the made up crap that the un-hinged left spews, but some real life Marx and Che’ inspired war crimes…

The United Nations (U.N.) released a statement Wednesday saying that the prolonged imprisonment and inhumane treatment of hostages by the FARC constitute war crimes and, or crimes against humanity under international law, El Espectador reported.

The statement also demanded the "immediate and unconditional release" of all hostages still held by the FARC.

The U.N.'s statement follows the release of FARC hostage Josue Calvo last Sunday and Pablo Emilio Moncayo on Tuesday after 12 years in captivity. From here

Not so bad you say?

Lawmaker Sigifredo Lopez, 45, who spent almost seven years in captivity was handed by the drugs funded group to a humanitarian delegation headed by Colombian Senator Piedad Cordoba with Brazilian logistic support. The solicitor said that his fellow prisoners were murdered by FARC members during a "friendly fire" incident when guerrillas from another column marched into the camp where they were being held without warning or previous coordination. "It was a war crime, mere cowardice, paranoia, because rebels have strict orders that if they are about to loose their trophy (hostages) they must murder them, because loosing them is considered an act of cowardice", said Lopez in Cali on his return from the jungle in Red Cross helicopters supplied by Brazil with Brazilian pilots.

Lopez is the only survivor of twelve lawmakers that were kidnapped in April 2002 by FARC in Cali, when a guerrilla commando, acting and dressed as a Colombian Army and Police unit, ordered the evacuation of the provincial Congress building in Cali on the excuse of a bomb threat. The politicians were killed June 18, 2007 and at the time FARC blamed the Colombian Army alleging a failed attempt to release them. Colombian president Alvaro Uribe denied the charges from the first moment and accused the guerrillas of the murders.

Lopez confirmed there was no combat or rescue attempt from the Colombian forces and he survived simply because he had been isolated from the rest of the group, although in the same camp, for discussing with one of the rebel leaders. "I'm alive because I was lucky, because God exists; I was isolated to be punished and be chained for the rest of the year", said Lopez. The former member of the regional congress said he was not aware of the killing of his peers because when the two guerrilla columns began fighting he ducked to the floor and imagined the other eleven hostages had been spared.

However he later heard on the radio of the killings and asked a guerrilla to check the news with the commander. "I've been told to tell you that what you've heard is true?it was my greatest depression while in the jungle as a prisoner". A guerrilla solider later told him that when two shots were fired and answered the word went out that it was an Army patrol and "the commander ordered the hostages shot, and let's get out as fast as possible". The remains of the killed lawmakers were later unearthed by the Colombian Army and all of them had been shot at short range in the back and head with AK 47, the guerrillas' standard assault rifle. From here

Or how about this? Every Leftist loves child solders right?

According to a 1998 study on child warriors by Colombia’s government Human Rights Ombudsman, around 10 percent of total guerrilla forces consisted of under-18s, with that figure rising above 30 percent in some individual guerrilla combat units. The report gave no overall figure for paramilitary recruitment of minors, considered far less than among guerrilla groups. Colombia has signed but not yet ratified an additional protocol to international human law that seeks to raise the minimum age of recruitment by warring factions from 15 to 18.

In its human rights report for 2000, the U.S. State Department described appalling conditions facing child soldiers fighting with the guerrillas: "The FARC lured or forced hundreds of children into its ranks...Once recruited the children are virtual prisoners of their commanders and subject to various forms of abuse. Sexual abuse among girls is a particular problem."

Those accusations intensified in November and December last year as the army decimated a FARC combat column near the town of Surata, in northern Santander province. In weeks of fighting, the military killed 61 guerrillas and captured 120 others, many of whom deserted. At least 54 of those captured were badly trained and poorly motivated under-18s. Some of the shell-shocked youngsters paraded in front of TV cameras by army commanders said they had been lured into rebel ranks by false promises of wages or mistreated by rebel warlords. Or hey… not really a ‘war crime’ but an innocent man died

[quote] Orlando Zapata Tamayo wasn’t a prominent voice in Cuba’s small opposition movement. He wasn’t one of the dissident activists whom foreign reporters often call for quotes, and he didn’t have a blog or an academic degree.

But when the 42-year-old bricklayer died Feb. 23 after an 85-day hunger strike in prison, he made a powerful protest statement that has electrified the island’s fragmented dissident community and brought a flood of fresh criticism to Cuba’s human rights record.

From here

Of course, revolution is not cheap. Hundreds of millions have died in the name of marx… and many more will. As Che’ said:

“Perhaps it is one of the great dramas of the leader that he or she must combine a passionate spirit with a cold intelligence and make painful decisions without flinching.”

You know... like killing hostages and turning kids into solders.

[aNoBVsUW]

The FARC are murdering pieces of shit. What the hell is the point of this thread?

Should I start posting atrocities by the right wing paramilitaries?

Is this is a "Colombia is a violent place" thread, or is it just a silly, inane, baiting, roundabout way of saying "Democrats are bad."

[kjanyeaz1]

Why is the FARC terrible but the private contractors and CIA who tortured and killed people at Abu Gharaib, Gitmo and Bagram and other black ops secret prisons OK?

Is this hypocrisy? Or denial about what we did during the Bush admin?

[cestsennY]

Why is the FARC terrible but the private contractors and CIA who tortured and killed people at Abu Gharaib, Gitmo and Bagram and other black ops secret prisons OK?

Is this hypocrisy? Or denial about what we did during the Bush admin?

A lot of misinformation here. First off, I'm not aware of anyone being killed under our captivity.

Second, it wasn't private contractors or the CIA at Abu Gharaib. It was a bunch of stupid soldiers being stupid. The worst thing that came out of that was them being stripped naked. I'd rather be naked than be tortured for real. Those people were punished for what they did and it was not a condoned policy. My best guess is that the main motivator was boredom. Believe me, I know how boring it gets on a deployment.

As far a secret prisons, was it OK for Clinton to do it as well? It was under Clinton were extraordinary rendition was implemented. Regardless, at Gitmo three whole entire people were water boarded. We were going after actionable intel and not just doing it "just because". We got information that stopped future attacks. I'd also rather be water boarded than have some real, permanent, torture being done to me.

[conurgenceDen]

FARC's finances relies mostly on drug taxation, extortions of locals and hostage taking. If they ever were agrarian, or revolutionary, as they claim, they certainly have ceased to be so long ago and became a gangster, criminal cartel that terrorizes the people they claim they want to liberate. As much as the Colombian government is worth overthrowing, I don't think you'll find too many support for them from my league. I certainly think they need to be cracked down, the fact is, most of them will probabily get absorbed into the Colombian military once that happens since they do exactly the same things on either side there is little need for training in the new position.

It's easy to condamn other people's crimes, especially when they happen to be official enemies. There is nothing you could do about it, so it carries little weight. Being critical of one's own country's, on the other hand, usually leads to the uncomfortable conclusion that one may be responsible too, and should do something to change it. If not, then one really have no right to complain. Of course one can, but in such cases, nobody should really care, like nobody really cares about idle whiners in general.

[Dwerfsd]

Someone asked the question: just why did you start this thread on war crimes?

To make a point, of course. And I made it successfully as well.

The issue here is not war crimes. Much more horrific are the crimes on the other side… the losing side of these conflicts.

Killing hostages, strapping bombs to young children, blowing up people shopping… or at prayer, all are without question, worse than anything on that video even ASSUMING the US troops were wrong (something I do not conceded).

The real purpose of the thread on the video… frankly the real reason the video was posted on-line is that the left hates America.

This fact… that the left, in every form, and of any ‘flavor’ hates America is beyond any rational dispute. It is real, and has always been… and it remains a key plank of theirs. The left must vilify the USA, it must destroy it, for this nation is the key impediment to their goal of world domination.

This fact this hatred of our nation puts us at risk. Thankfully as of today, right now, the risk is one we can still fight and still defeat. This is why the left must never again be allowed to hold power in this country. They take such power only when we the people give it to them and that take it only to destroy what we hold dear and true.

This must not be allowed to happen.

Oh yes, I know… this will be condemned as a wide-eyed right wing kooky conspiracy… but it is not. It is real it is real, and it is here now… you need only look.

(Cross posted in both threads)

[maks_holi]

Someone asked the question: just why did you start this thread on war crimes?

To make a point, of course. And I made it successfully as well.

The issue here is not war crimes. Much more horrific are the crimes on the other side… the losing side of these conflicts.

Killing hostages, strapping bombs to young children, blowing up people shopping… or at prayer, all are without question, worse than anything on that video even ASSUMING the US troops were wrong (something I do not conceded).

The real purpose of the thread on the video… frankly the real reason the video was posted on-line is that the left hates America.

This fact… that the left, in every form, and of any ‘flavor’ hates America is beyond any rational dispute. It is real, and has always been… and it remains a key plank of theirs. The left must vilify the USA, it must destroy it, for this nation is the key impediment to their goal of world domination.

This fact this hatred of our nation puts us at risk. Thankfully as of today, right now, the risk is one we can still fight and still defeat. This is why the left must never again be allowed to hold power in this country. They take such power only when we the people give it to them and that take it only to destroy what we hold dear and true.

This must not be allowed to happen.

Oh yes, I know… this will be condemned as a wide-eyed right wing kooky conspiracy… but it is not. It is real it is real, and it is here now… you need only look.

(Cross posted in both threads)

Well, I hope you feel justified then when we murder innocent civilians, you can just trot other examples of atrocities committed by other nations and/or organizations.

It's like your security blanket.

[imictiorume]

Well, I hope you feel justified then when we murder innocent civilians, you can just trot other examples of atrocities committed by other nations and/or organizations.

It's like your security blanket.

In point of fact we didn't. And if (in any case now or in the future) we do so by accident and not as a matter of policy.

The left, in your name, has murdered millions. Where is the outrage?

[Indian Butt Magic]

A lot of misinformation here. First off, I'm not aware of anyone being killed under our captivity. really

The online news magazine Salon has reported on multiple deaths of Iraqi prisoners in U.S. custody,[10] and according to a report issued by the American Civil Liberties Union, at least 28 have died at Abu Ghraib.[11
source, Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Second, it wasn't private contractors or the CIA at Abu Gharaib. hmmmmm

The prisoner Manadel al-Jamadi died in Abu Ghraib prison after being interrogated and tortured by a CIA officer and a private contractor. The torture included physical violence and strappado hanging whereby the victim's is hung from the wrists with the hands tied behind the back. His death has been labeled a homicide by the US military [8], but neither of the two men that caused his death have been charged. The private contractor was granted immunity.[9] same source

It was a bunch of stupid soldiers being stupid. The worst thing that came out of that was them being stripped naked maybe a little more

Major General Antonio Taguba has stated that there is photographic evidence of rape being carried out by American military personnel at Abu Ghraib.[12] An Iraqi teenage boy was raped by a uniformed man while photos of it were taken by a female US military police.[13] The alleged rapist was identified by a witness as an American-Egyptian who worked as a translator, and who is now the subject of a civil court case in the US.[12] sounds a little worse than being stripped naked.

but wait there's more

Another photo shows an American soldier apparently raping a female prisoner.[12] Other photos show sexual assaults on prisoners with objects including a truncheon, wire and a phosphorescent tube, and a female prisoner having her clothing forcibly removed to expose her breasts.[12] Taguba has supported President Obama's decision not to release the photos, stating “These pictures show torture, abuse, rape and every indecency.”[12] geez that communist, didn't wanna release the pictures

In another case, a female inmate was raped by an American military policeman. In a third reported case, witnesses said US guards repeatedly raped a 14 year old girl in 2003.[14]. In a fourth reported case, Senior US officials admitted rape had taken place at Abu Ghraib.[15] man these guys really act out when they're bored

They stressed him out so bad that the man died. The next day the medics came in and put his body on a stretcher, placed a fake I.V. in his arm [to suggest he died under medical care] and took him away. This OGA (other governmental agency) [prisoner] was never processed and therefore never had a number.
—Ivan Frederick I'm not aware of anyone being killed under our captivity. Care to revise that statement?

The New York Times, in a report on January 12, 2005,[23] reported testimony suggesting that the following events had taken place at Abu Ghraib:

Urinating on detainees
Jumping on detainee's leg (a limb already wounded by gunfire) with such force that it could not thereafter heal properly
Continuing by pounding detainee's wounded leg with collapsible metal baton
Pouring phosphoric acid on detainees
Sodomization of detainees with a baton
Tying ropes to the detainees' legs or penises and dragging them across the floor. I hate it when these guys get bored.

As far a secret prisons, was it OK for Clinton to do it as well? It was under Clinton were extraordinary rendition was implemented. It's wrong I don't care who does it. Did you have a point?

I'd also rather be water boarded than have some real, permanent, torture being done to me. Have you been water boarded? I have a close relative that was water boarded as a part of Marine Corps training, he can't watch a video of it.

I would never defend any "war crimes" by FARC, or anyone else for that matter, but when Americans behave in this manner it is despicable, and it is a REAL WAR CRIME.

[MAKEMONEY]

This fact… that the left, in every form, and of any ‘flavor’ hates America is beyond any rational dispute. It is real, and has always been… and it remains a key plank of theirs. The left must vilify the USA, it must destroy it, for this nation is the key impediment to their goal of world domination. I'm sorry, no. That is not a fact.

Sky is blue today in NC: fact
Left hates America: your opinion.

How do you explain people who are on the left (at least in your mind) who put their lives on the line for this country every day?

Thrill me.

[sharpyure]

Sky is kind of gray today anyway.

[Nurba]

really




source, Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



hmmmmm



same source



maybe a little more



sounds a little worse than being stripped naked.

but wait there's more



geez that communist, didn't wanna release the pictures



man these guys really act out when they're bored





Care to revise that statement?



I hate it when these guys get bored.



It's wrong I don't care who does it. Did you have a point?



Have you been water boarded? I have a close relative that was water boarded as a part of Marine Corps training, he can't watch a video of it.

I would never defend any "war crimes" by FARC, or anyone else for that matter, but when Americans behave in this manner it is despicable, and it is a REAL WAR CRIME.

Salon? SALON???? Seriously? Come on man, an online magazine. I gotcha. And then you have the NYT's report where they "suggested" that these things happened....suggested. Did they really happen? That is quite possible. Is it our policy to do those things? Besides the waterboarding to those three whole pieces of shit excuses for human beings? No. Your Marine relative had it done to him as part of training....TRAINING. Are you suggesting that we are torturing our own military personnel? What constitutes torture? Where do we draw the line? It's an arbitrary thing. What is considered torture for one person isn't torture for another.

Many of the people that allegedly did those things are punished already. It's also not something that is easy to conceptualize when you haven't been in the situation.

Stanford prison experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These are "normal" educated people. This is the problem when people sit, safe, far from the danger and the situation and judge. Problem is, these very same people get put in the situation and they do the very same thing.

[BenWired306]

These are "normal" educated people. This is the problem when people sit, safe, far from the danger and the situation and judge. Problem is, these very same people get put in the situation and they do the very same thing.

That makes it ok?

[turbutbamethyg]

Salon? SALON???? Seriously? Come on man, an online magazine. I gotcha. And then you have the NYT's report where they "suggested" that these things happened....suggested. Did they really happen? That is quite possible. Is it our policy to do those things? Besides the waterboarding to those three whole pieces of shit excuses for human beings? No. Your Marine relative had it done to him as part of training....TRAINING. Are you suggesting that we are torturing our own military personnel? What constitutes torture? Where do we draw the line? It's an arbitrary thing. What is considered torture for one person isn't torture for another.

Many of the people that allegedly did those things are punished already. It's also not something that is easy to conceptualize when you haven't been in the situation.

Stanford prison experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These are "normal" educated people. This is the problem when people sit, safe, far from the danger and the situation and judge. Problem is, these very same people get put in the situation and they do the very same thing.

Arbitrary? No, sorry. It's quite settled by law, and it's torture.

[oraltyrap]

That makes it ok?

No, I'm saying it's easy to judge from the sidelines.

[arriplify]

Arbitrary? No, sorry. It's quite settled by law, and it's torture.

Actually, after having read what "defined" torture it's very subjective.

[gkruCRi1]

Salon? SALON???? Seriously? Come on man, an online magazine. I gotcha. And then you have the NYT's report where they "suggested" that these things happened....suggested. Did they really happen? That is quite possible. Is it our policy to do those things? Besides the waterboarding to those three whole pieces of shit excuses for human beings? No. Your Marine relative had it done to him as part of training....TRAINING. Are you suggesting that we are torturing our own military personnel? What constitutes torture? Where do we draw the line? It's an arbitrary thing. What is considered torture for one person isn't torture for another.

. It's also not something that is easy to conceptualize when you haven't been in the situation.

Stanford prison experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These are "normal" educated people. This is the problem when people sit, safe, far from the danger and the situation and judge. Problem is, these very same people get put in the situation and they do the very same thing.

Did you read the link I gave or did you just see Salon, the article was from Wikipedia which you also quote and I only listed a few examples, the examples are well footnoted and documented I suggest you read the link. It quotes military officers and Donald Rumsfeld.


Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'll list it again. Are you suggesting that because you don't like the source, it isn't true? I was merely contradicting your statement that no one lost their life. Personally I think rape is pretty bad, maybe you feel different.

No I'm not suggesting that we torture our Marines in training, he volunteered for the advanced training, just stating that even though he knew it was training, even though he knew the people doing it to him weren't gonna kill him, it was terrifying. He told me he couldn't imagine how it would feel, if he was a real captive. BTW, he passed the course.

The first thing I’d say is we’re appalled as well. These are our fellow soldiers. These are the people we work with every day, and they represent us. They wear the same uniform as us, and they let their fellow soldiers down [...] Our soldiers could be taken prisoner as well. And we expect our soldiers to be treated well by the adversary, by the enemy. And if we can't hold ourselves up as an example of how to treat people with dignity and respect [...] We can't ask that other nations to that to our soldiers as well. [...] So what would I tell the people of Iraq? This is wrong. This is reprehensible. But this is not representative of the 150,000 soldiers that are over here [...] I'd say the same thing to the American people ... Don't judge your army based on the actions of a few.
—Gen Mark Kimmitt, [19] Another quote from an officer. And no I don't judge the military by the actions of a few, but I don't try to deny that it happened.


At the same time, Kimmitt said: “I'd like to sit here and say that these are the only prisoner abuse cases that we're aware of, but we know that there have been some other ones since we've been here in Iraq.”[19 another quote by the same officer.

Former Marine Lt. Col. Bill Cowan was also interviewed, stating: “We went into Iraq to stop things like this from happening, and indeed, here they are happening under our tutelage.” another quote by a different officer.

Were you trying to say these things didn't happen, by attacking the source?


Many of the people that allegedly did those things are punished already So are you saying these things only allegedly happened?