[roundman]

A reactionary's answer to everthing. "Kill 'em!"

I have discovered over the years that many of the 'conservatives' on discussion forums are not conservatives. They are radicals.

[rikdpola]

A reactionary's answer to everthing. "Kill 'em!"

Exactly.

Rather than actually examining the roots of the problem and trying to find real solutions, it's all about killing other people.


Well, actually, it's about having other people kill other people. Wouldn't want to get one's hands dirty.

[Barryrich]

For just a split second I thought that was me, but mine has a scope, not iron sights.

[Texdolley]

OK, so now that I know we aren't talking about Meadhall...

The linked article above concludes with this dilemma concerning the 5 captured pirate still aboard the USS Nicholas Go old school. Make them walk the plank.

Originally Posted by Rude Boy
A reactionary's answer to everthing. "Kill 'em!" If they can swim, they'll be fine, hon.

[lopezsokero]

Did a little driving today to go and empty out the apartment I've been living in where I have been working. I thought about this thread, the paucity of responses, and the paucity of QUALITY responsed.

I am wondering since we MUST dump medical waste somewhere, why is it logical to dump it in the ocean or the Great Lakes which was discovered a few years back and not logical to dump it into an active volcano. Medical waste is stuff like syringes, bandages, and excised body parts. Wouldn't an active volcano be just the ticket? Instead of dumping it on those poor people in Somalia.

Don't have any suggestions on nuclear waste.

[OnerePeepsy]

And we continue to dump hazardous waste there?

I wouldn't advise it. Whether or not it would continue would depend on what method we decide to take. It's kinda hard to do when the ships in the convoy are traveling in a formation and can't slow down.

[Bgfbukpf]

Not really, and partially for the reason you list next. The pirates may believe that one day, if they keep attacking ship, they'll be caught; but the chance of such a thing happening per attack is so low as to be negligible. Traditionally, force is the only strategy that's been effective in dealing with large-scale piracy.

Force has indeed always been an effective and key way of combating piracy. After all, everyone has a right to self-defence against a criminal aggression involving deadly force and common sense dictates that such a right be exercised. Moreover, paying ransom only encourages piracy given pirates seeking compensation for their criminal acts is the point of it, which is why I felt the recent practices by many shipping companies to pay ransom as the 'cheaper alternative' was counter to historical precedent and common sense insofar as solving the problem itself, which very well may not--and probably isn't most unfortunately--of some unscrupulous shippers more interested in their personal bottom lines than in the welfare of all others affected by it.

Taking the position to kill them isn't enough of a drawback by itself IMO for those already having chosen to risk that if they believe the potential payoffs are worth the risk, so it's not just about that consideration alone. Pirates are already being killed in self-defence already, yet it's a booming 'business' in that area. Force was always used in the past centuries and the practice boomed. Countries regularly had the death penalty for captured pirates, which is more extreme than the penalties for it now in First World nations. So, pirates knew that each fight was 'do or die' literally speaking. It was the manners in how force was applied plus other measures that helped end it in many areas that suffered it.

IMO, and it seems to be a matter of common sense, if pirates feel there is certain death and little chance of a payoff, the cost/benefit analysis certainly speaks for itself for discouraging the acts. But getting to that point is key, so I'm not sure if we really disagree here, because the last part is what I'm aiming at insofar as the law enforcement side of this international problem--namely, little chance for a payoff for piracy. If there is little chance for a payoff, then the matter resolves itself anyway whether the pirates believe they'll likely die, spend life or years in prison, and/or just waste food, fuel and time tooling around in the ocean for no benefit. Available alternatives to piracy (and crime itself) also help reduce the problem at the source. If many of these Somalis are 'in a corner' so to speak due to loss of their former fishing practices and in dire straits as a result anyway given their other relevant dire facts, that's all the more incentive for many to feel they have little to lose anyway ('pick your poison' scenario). That 'ups' the benefit on the scale, and sending the scale the other way would therefore help (hence why I addressed the waste and overfishing abuses by outsiders and possible remedies).

So, that's really why I started this thread...to think of the best ways to get there insofar as preventative measures, law enforcement measures, etc.

That might work to some degree, I suppose; having ships assemble in the Atlantic and escorted by warships thru the Indian at set intervals, but they'd still be vulnerable in the Suez. It would slow down shipping, and undoubtedly there would those who would decide to go it alone, as they'd be paid extra for arriving early. They'd be the most likely targets for piracy.

A blockade of the ports in question could also work; that is putting warships 15-20 off the coast and sinking anyone that decided to venture beyond that point.

The pirates are mostly operating off the east African Coast in the Indian Sea and especially in Gulf of Aden (I'm assuming a misspeak when mentioning the Suez and you meant these areas).

My initial thoughts are that guarded convoys in the Gulf area could be very well defended. Given the narrow passage and common entry/exit point, it's easier to convoy ships with protective warships, helicopters, and other military surveillance and apparatus going in and out in something like the Gulf of Aden, and given the pirates are using small primitive crafts by comparison, they'd be iron coffins taking on such a force.

But you mentioned a sticking point for sure--getting shipping companies and others to go along with it for the reasons you cited. After all, the shipping industry and its interested parties have their own cost/benefit analysis too and temptations that come with it. That issue can apply for any strategy, convoy or otherwise.

So, strategies need to be formed to up the cost for them for not complying and putting personal greed first that would undermine the efforts to quash the problem. Some initial musing for possible discussion include but are not limited to maritime laws with penalties requiring all compliance deemed necessary, obtaining cooperation with affected states to penalise those who don't comply, getting the cooperation of affected Gulf states and others states to neither load or unload noncompliant ships, refusal to render aid to noncompliant ships that fall under attack, make noncompliant companies personally liable in civil court for harmed crews, etc.

[imporrilk]

Lads,

First I recommend the Ross Kemp series on this topic.
YouTube - Ross Kemp In Search Of Pirates 1 (1/5)

That will get your started.
Piracy is wrong and so is illegal dumping and fishing. The pirates come from the same groups as the fishermen the west (mainly mafia groups, the Mafia hold the contracts on 1/3 of Italian waste disposal market). The west also destabilized the country when they got the Islamic government over thrown their.

The west has to take responsibilities for the there actions in the region. We created a climate and a strong motive for piracy to operate here. The previous Islamic government had piracy under control as well as the Illegal fishing and dumping.

We seriously have to stop using these areas as dumping grounds... The same is happening in Niger with Oil... We have destroyed the locals ability to feed themselves and then brand them as criminals when they attack... Third world countries all round the world are having these problems..

We need to get to the root of the problem.

http://somalimonitor.com/blog/wp-con.../01/sunmap.jpg









In Niger (also a piracy hotspot)
Oil industry has brought poverty and pollution to Niger Delta | Amnesty International

[effenseshoora]

Should dumpers get torpedoes too?

torpedo a dump ship and all the shit its dumping hits the water genius.