[MP+4]

There have regularly been threads regarding specific acts of terrorism against the West. For this thread, we can dig deeper.

http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2008/04/22/48715.html

Al-Qaeda number two, Ayman al-Zawahiri, criticized Muslims for failing to support insurgencies in Iraq and elsewhere and said that Lebanon will play a pivotal role in the Islamists' fight against the "Crusaders and Jews," in an audio message posted on Tuesday on the Internet. From this article, we can see that some jihadists regard the fight as one against "Crusaders."

Do western countries have any culpability in this? What are the complaints of anti-Western terrorists? Is there any validity to the complaints of anti-Western terrorists? What can/should be done?


Discuss the causes, contributing factors and possible solutions to anti-Western terrorism.

[FYvWldC0]

I don't know who he thinks he is going to get riled up with this use of the word "crusader". Perhaps there are some Arabs with a keen sense of historical victimhood going back a thousand years that eat this shit up, to those people I would say look around you and think about your future, not ancient history.

[Cydayshosse]

I don't know who he thinks he is going to get riled up with this use of the word "crusader". Perhaps there are some Arabs with a keen sense of historical victimhood going back a thousand years that eat this shit up, to those people I would say look around you and think about your future, not ancient history.

Do you think it is pure coincidence, that USA is bombing in five MUSLIM coyntries, together with sponsoring attack`s on other MUSLIM nationalities ?

Can you name me anything other, than places of MUSLIM origin being bombed or targeted by America?

I can certainly understand, if some of the 1,5 billion muslims in the world, might get the impression that it looks like a crusade

Jen

[Cheeniandab]

They are not "anti-western", that is an over-simplification.
They are anti-modernity. Thus, as western cultures are generally the most modern, they are "anti-western" by default.
They are also fascists by nature, religious zealots to the nth degree that use that myth to brainwash an otherwise desperate-poor young population. To boot they believe/teach that violence is not only an answer to their problem - but a divine edification with an eternal reward in the next life.

What role do we play?
We live unlike them.

[lrtoinbert]

How would you define "the West" in specific in first place?

USA + EU?
If so also Latin America?
What about Russia? (Its European heritage hardly can be denied)

Aren't these jihadists rather meaning the Christian world rather than "the West" or maybe even using it as a synonym?

[forebirdo]

How would you define "the West" in specific in first place?

USA + EU?
If so also Latin America?
What about Russia? (Its European heritage hardly can be denied)

Aren't these jihadists rather meaning the Christian world rather than "the West" or maybe even using it as a synonym?

Christianity IMO plays a very minor role in their hatred.
What they are "against" is, again, modernity.

If you live in a modern society, you are hated...pretty simple really.

(Yet you notice they use modern tools to recruit)

[BoarmomorurrY]

^^ Its not as easy as that. Not few of the jihadists have lived in a modern society themselves and were read to die fighting for fanatic islamist goals. Its not just that various terror groups use modern tools, many proponents are, I dare to go so far, part of modern society and not poor either.

Its a fact btw, that the Muslim world is hit even harder by these terrorists than the US or Europe.

[GWRIeEQp]

Do you think it is pure coincidence, that USA is bombing in five MUSLIM coyntries, together with sponsoring attack`s on other MUSLIM nationalities ?

Can you name me anything other, than places of MUSLIM origin being bombed or targeted by America?

I can certainly understand, if some of the 1,5 billion muslims in the world, might get the impression that it looks like a crusade

Jen

The crusades were started to take back the holy land, Israel. Since we aren't attacking Jerusalem or any part of Israel I don't know how they would get that impression. Additionally, one of the catalysts for the crusade was a response to Muslim expansion. So it was more reactionary than a purely offensive campaign. If they are going to use that word they should try and know what the history actually is.

[neonasafluni]

^^ Actually it was Geroge W Bush who used this word himself once, wasn't he? Although he found out pretty fast that this was a rather stupid thing to do.

[aaaaaaaabbbby]

Christianity IMO plays a very minor role in their hatred.
What they are "against" is, again, modernity.

If you live in a modern society, you are hated...pretty simple really.

(Yet you notice they use modern tools to recruit)

I think yet another word should be added in tandem as having a cause and effect relationship..... "Exploitation" !

definition - Dictionary - MSN EncartaDefinition: 1. unfair treatment or use: the practice of taking selfish or unfair advantage of a person or situation, usually for personal gain ...
encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861609889/exploitation.html - Cached - Similar

Noteable in the process of exploitation was the activity of England, France, Spain the Dutch and later the U.S.A's .. ownership and/or control (still existing ) by early occupation of vast reaches of our planet combined with subjugation of of those indigenous dwellers that has played a significant role in how many "entities" view the West today.

[Jorcelirl]

They hate us because we're free. They're jealous of our freedom and our women, with their large American breasts.

[Nicihntm]

So as to facilitate reasoned discussion, here is a link which touches on greivances of Al Qaeda:

National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States

Bin Ladin also stresses grievances against the United States widely shared in the Muslim world. He inveighed against the presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia, which is the home of Islam's holiest sites, and against other U.S. policies in the Middle East.
This indicates that the presence of American military forces in Saudi Arabia may be considered provocative.

What specific U.S. policies in the Middle East would Mr. Bin Laden be referring to?

[Affolfembonge]

They hate us because we're free. They're jealous of our freedom and our women, with their large American breasts.

Best laugh of the day !

[zzarratusstra]

So as to facilitate reasoned discussion, here is a link which touches on greivances of Al Qaeda:

National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States




This indicates that the presence of American military forces in Saudi Arabia may be considered provocative.

What specific U.S. policies in the Middle East would Mr. Bin Laden be referring to?

Wahhabists consider lying to be perfectly acceptable as a means to an end. With that in mind, how can you take anything OBL says seriously?

What does it really matter what their perceived "grievances" are? In their 6th century minds we're infidels with two choices, convert, or die.

[AgJ5mNXM]

They hate us because we're free. They're jealous of our freedom and our women, with their large American breasts.

Can't say that I blame them. Burkas serve a very utilitarian purpose.

[JAMES PIETERSE]

The crusades were started to take back the holy land, Israel. Since we aren't attacking Jerusalem or any part of Israel I don't know how they would get that impression. Additionally, one of the catalysts for the crusade was a response to Muslim expansion. So it was more reactionary than a purely offensive campaign. If they are going to use that word they should try and know what the history actually is.

a) the goal was not Israel but Jerusalem. And the Popes order was to "free" jerusalem from the "heathen"

b) Palestine was never part of the western world, so there was no "taking back"

The crusades were started by a pope (Urban II) to stop western knights killing one another, robbing the population and thus decrease the fortunes sought by the Vatican.
As the Pope also claimed right of possession of Byzantium, with Turks threatening the latter he had an additional excuse.


Crusades were no more and no less than pure aggression.

Crusades Basics - What You Need to Know About the Crusades

Something to read, pretty simplified, but contradicting your above statement.

[espenijij]

They hate us because we're free. They're jealous of our freedom and our women, with their large American breasts.

Interestingly I have never heard that kind of argument outside of the USA, ever.
Good that you take all those who use it on a ride ...

[Broorbbub]

I don't find it that hard to understand the mindset of the terrorist. All you need to do is imagine that the situation was reversed. Imagine a world dominated by a Muslim nation with overwhelming military might. Imagine that they installed military bases pretty much wherever they wanted, one outside of New York, a couple in the midwest and one in Florida, right across from Disneyworld. Imagine that they used their military might as a wedge to inject their culture, their values, and their religion into our daily lives.

Would this piss you off a little? Even if you are an exceptionally patient and open minded sort who would never think of doing anything violent, what about the redneck gun-nut down the street. Do you think he might get unhinged watching Muslim soldiers march around his home town like they owned the place?

The desperation behind terrorism is born of powerlessness. They're faced with an increasingly intrusive foreign influence, backed by an overwhelming military, and they feel helpless to do anything about it. It's not so hard to understand how some of them might reach a point of such despair that they'd be willing to die to strike back.

[dietpillxanaxaxx]

I don't find it that hard to understand the mindset of the terrorist. All you need to do is imagine that the situation was reversed. Imagine a world dominated by a Muslim nation with overwhelming military might. Imagine that they installed military bases pretty much wherever they wanted, on outside of New York, a couple in the midwest and one in Florida, right across from Disneyworld. Imagine that they used their military might as a wedge to inject their culture, their values, and their religion into our daily lives.

Would this piss you off a little? Even if you are a exceptionally patient and open minded sort who would never think of doing anything violent, what about the redneck gun-nut down the street. Do you think he might get unhinged watching Muslim soldiers march around his home town like they owned the place?

The desperation behind terrorism is born of powerlessness. They're faced with an increasingly intrusive foreign influence, backed by an overwhelming military, and they feel helpless to do anything about it. It's not so hard to understand how some of them might reach a point of such despair that they'd be willing to die to strike back.

In a word, bullshit.

What about conflicts around the globe where Muslims are the aggressors, and the West has absolutely no involvement?

Your "imagine" fantasy falls flat. Even at Gitmo the terrorists are served Halal meals, and our military personnel aren't even allowed to touch the "holy koran" without surgical gloves. Gimme a freakin' break already.

The simple fact is, Muslims have a hard time getting along with others.

Coexist my ass.

[Redys]

In a word, bullshit.

What about conflicts around the globe where Muslims are the aggressors, and the West has absolutely no involvement?

Your "imagine" fantasy falls flat. Even at Gitmo the terrorists are served Halal meals, and our military personnel aren't even allowed to touch the "holy koran" without surgical gloves. Gimme a freakin' break already.

The simple fact is, Muslims have a hard time getting along with others.

Coexist my ass.

LOL... right. So if the tables were turned, we mild-mannered Americans would just passively accept it? give ME a break.