[GutleNus]

Obama has set the mark. July, 2011. Obama to Karzai: Fix it or it's over. The Democratic party won't be divided over Afghanistan.

You're dreaming.

[QRhnNSg9]

WTF

To all you cons who keep bringing up this same argument, the only difference with McCain would be that by now we'd be in Iran too.

Obama is withdrawing as fast as he can from both countries. It is not his fault that Bush handed him this problem. And yes, I'm still blaming Bush because IT'S STILL HIS FUCKING GODDAM FAULT, just like the Depression. You all seem unaware of this but things people do at one time can actually have effects later , the evil that men do, as someone once said, DOES live after them. By your reasoning I can burn a house to the fucking ground and blame the next resident because the windows don't work right

Sending in 30,000 MORE troops is withdrawing?

[Fegasderty]

Sending in 30,000 MORE troops is withdrawing?

Send more troops in now so that we can leave sooner: that's how Obama's reasoning goes. And, of course, it does come down to what happens in the interim: Does the Afghan army become a reliable force? Does the Karzai government clean up its act? Are the radicals holed up in the ungoverned, mountainous regions killed or captured or at least neutralized? Does Pakistan stop supporting radical elements of their population?

Effectively Obama kicked the can down the road until July, 2011. And you know what? He's going to get away with it. Democrats will give him this chance to straighten things out in Afghanistan/Pakistan. They're going to accept his plan because they're mostly happy with his leadership on their programs here at home; not completely happy but mostly. And, he's the only game in town.

[gSjQEEmq]

The administration has set a date for a token withdrawal of a handful of forces only, (unless the situation completely reverses itself, and our troops are no longer needed because the Taliban has decided to embrace the Karzai government and give up al Qaeda). Gates and Clinton have said the public should expect a significant military presence in Afghanistan for at least 2 to 4 more years. What's the point of this thread?

[Qnnoshxj]

He's trying the same strategy that finally worked for your Fearless Leader, only with him it's not taking 7 years to figure it out.

If he did withdraw now you'd all be screaming how he's soft on terror and a coward.

*doffs his cap to John Drake*

ahoy mighty John Drake!

i no longer be a supporter 'o our president's military policy in Afghanistan, i've recently abandoned that ship...but i think ye makes a fair point here, matey.

aye.

- MeadHallPirate

[propolo]

Obama will not retreat going into an election year.

Whether or not any lasting progress is gained depends on how well we consolidate our tactical victories.

[Axxflcaj]

I remember the NYT running a picture of a US Army Special Forces cadre deplaning in San Salvador in 1982, he was sent there to help train up the salvadoran army that was fighting leftist guerillas in that country's cvil war in the 1980's. He was (gasp!) carrying his M-16 with him. The moonbats back here went ballistic, to them it was further proof that Reagan was getting us involved in another Vietnam against the wishes of the public. There was earnest talk of a quagmire and an out-of-control president blowing off the war powers act to conduct a clandestine imperialist war at the behest of U.S. business interests...one guy with a rifle...yet when our president today commits 30,000 combat troops carrying not just rifles, these same people are strangely mute. WTF

[BliliBoopsy]

[I]
i no longer be a supporter 'o our president's military policy in Afghanistan, i've recently abandoned that ship...but i think ye makes a fair point here, matey.

aye.

- MeadHallPirate

Its not about what' is good for the president but what is good for the country. Continuing to bleed our best young people in a war that this man has no intention of winning is wrong. Let's face facts: letting our mission in Afghanistan grow from one of simple retribution for the 9/11 attacks into one of nation building was a tremendous mistake on the part of the Bush administration. Continuing that policy is madness. We should have got once we had installed the Northern Alliance in Kabul back in 2002.

[Hujkmlopes]

Look at the aftermath of WWII. Either we pull back and get back to a policy of containment, or we are going to be in Iraq and Afghanistan for the next 100 years.

[freflellalafe]

Look at the aftermath of WWII. Either we pull back and get back to a policy of containment, or we are going to be in Iraq and Afghanistan for the next 100 years.

We've been in Germany and Japan for more then 60 years now and over 50 years in Korea. For some strange reason people there aren't killing each other with explosives in those places all the time.

[ClapekDodki]

We've been in Germany and Japan for more then 60 years now and over 50 years in Korea. For some strange reason people there aren't killing each other with explosives in those places all the time.

]

So JD, not mentioning the cultural differences between those two places and the Islamic world, your's is a vote to remain in Iraq and A'stan for the next 50-60 years, yes?

Just rying to understand.

[Eromaveabeara]

so JD, not mentioning the cultural differences between those two places and the Islamic world, your's is a vote to remain in Iraq and A'stan for the next 50-60 years, yes?

Let's stick our tails between our legs and run away from the hornets nest we stirred up and then we can pretend we have no moral responsibilities for the deaths that follow , is that a good idea?

[StitsVobsaith]

So JD, in your opinion what's wrong with Iraq and A'stan is a result of US actions?

Just trying to understand what it is you're getting at.

[voodoosdv]

]

So JD, not mentioning the cultural differences between those two places and the Islamic world, your's is a vote to remain in Iraq and A'stan for the next 50-60 years, yes?

Just rying to understand.

A big reason:

EXTENT AND COMPOSITION OF THE JAPANESE TRADE SURPLUS
1. Extent
Trade with Japan accounts for a large proportion (almost three fifths in 1992) of the EU's overall trade deficit. The Japanese surplus with the EU rose from 0.7 billion ECU in 1970 to 31.0 billion ECU in 1992.
Even when the yen was strong, the import-export ratio increased from 1.3 in 1960 to 2.9 in 1986. In 1992, the value of EU imports from Japan was 2.5 times higher than the value of the Union's exports to Japan. The penetration of Japanese markets by European products, on the other hand, was even lower in 1992 (0.72 %) than in 1960 (0.74 %).


2. Germany (06/09)In addition to social assistance payments, the government will extend funds to ... At $43 billion, the U.S.'s fifth-largest trade deficit is with Germany. ...

Source: Google "U.S. EU Trade balance with Japan, Germany !

One does not (uaually) shit where they eat !

INcidently: That goes for China as well

Costly Trade With China: Millions of U.S. jobs displaced with net ...The rise in the U.S. trade deficit with China between 1997 and 2006 has displaced production that could have supported 2166000 U.S. jobs. ...
Costly Trade With China: Millions of U.S. jobs displaced with net job loss in every state - Cached
[PDF] China's Trade with the United States and the WorldFile Format:

PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
is also true for Europe and Japan, although to a lesser extent. China runs a trade surplus with the world's three major economic centers. The U.S. bilateral ...
italy.usembassy.gov/pdf/other/RL31403.pdf - Similar

[egexgfczc]

I don't understand your post sceptic. You are trying to make a case for staying in these two wars based on US trade policies/imbalances? Can you explain?

[arriftell]

So JD, in your opinion what's wrong with Iraq and A'stan is a result of US actions?

Just trying to understand what it is you're getting at.

Some of it , yes. Been there for years have to own up to some responsibility.

[dosyrotsbop]

Maybe it is time to break up Iraq into security zones, say a US Zone, a Russian Zone, and a Chinese Zone.

[Kragh]

Some of it , yes. Been there for years have to own up to some responsibility.

I don't think you've thought about this very much. We weren't there at all when they attacked us. They have brought all this misery down on their own heads, haven't they? Are they not their own worst enemy?

[sportbos]

Maybe it is time to break up Iraq into security zones, say a US Zone, a Russian Zone, and a Chinese Zone.

I've got an idea...how about we get out and leave them the hell alone? We never had a legitimate reason to go into Iraq in the first place. Forcing them into the hands of the criminal Russian and Chinese governments seems like true and utter depravity to me. We just need to get totally out of the Middle East.

[Eagevawax]

I don't think you've thought about this very much. We weren't there at all when they attacked us. They have brought all this misery down on their own heads, haven't they? Are they not their own worst enemy?

We are certainly responsible for the state of security in Iraq. In Afghanistan we are responsible for fighting a war we weren't really trying to win at the start. Yeah we chased the Taliban out of immediate power and stomped al-Queda pretty good but we've never forced the Taliban into a real political solution and the terrorists are not gone.