[idertedype]

Where is the outcry? Clinton thinks that democrats and African Americans are too stupid to get the most basic necessity, an ID. Not only does the lack of ID make it impossible to do some of the most basic every day activities, but states even will provide the ID free of charge if needed.

Mr. Clinton claims Republicans are trying to "make the 2012 electorate look more like the 2010 electorate than the 2008 electorate," presumably by reducing Democratic turnout. But Democratic voters have no harder time getting a driver's license than do Republicans. Review & Outlook: Bill Clinton Does 'Jim Crow' - WSJ.com

[nebrarlepleme]

Clinton thinks that democrats and African Americans are too stupid to get the most basic necessity, an ID.

Your words, not his.

Obvious troll is obvious.

[ananciguinter]

I remember not knowing what ID was under the Race category on the last census. But now I see it's short for Identification. Identification people have a long history of contribution to this country and their rights should not be overlooked!

[mincbiori]

Your words, not his.

Obvious troll is obvious.

Perhaps you missed the point. I obviously don't think Clinton is racist... but how is requiring an ID to vote equivilent to Jim Crow... and why would it be harder for democrats and African Americans to get an ID?

"There has never been in my lifetime, since we got rid of the poll tax and all the other Jim Crow burdens on voting, the determined effort to limit the franchise that we see today," the former President warned a student group last month.

[Rqvtwlfk]

What he is referring to is the insidious and cynical habit of conservative elements to try to make it harder for the lower socio economic classes to vote.

It is elitism through and through of the worst kind.

[SQiTmhuY]

What he is referring to is the insidious and cynical habit of conservative elements to try to make it harder for the lower socio economic classes to vote.

It is elitism through and through of the worst kind.

Why are lower socio economic classes unable to get a free ID? Please explain. I find it elitist of you (and Clinton) to assume that lower socio economic classes are somehow unable to get such a basic necessity.

[XVzrlWIv]

Why are lower socio economic classes unable to get a free ID? Please explain. I find it elitist of you (and Clinton) to assume that lower socio economic classes are somehow unable to get such a basic necessity.

Oh I don't know? Maybe they don't have bus fare or gas money? Maybe they don't have time between the 3 minimum wage jobs they have? There are tons of reasons, and I would venture to guess many studies would show why it is more of a burden on the lower socio economic classes. Why must we play cute about it?

[VIAGRAENLINOBARATOCAMPRAR]

Oh I don't know? Maybe they don't have bus fare or gas money? Maybe they don't have time between the 3 minimum wage jobs they have? There are tons of reasons, and I would venture to guess many studies would show why it is more of a burden on the lower socio economic classes. Why must we play cute about it?

How do they have the time, bus fare or gas money to vote in the first place? I love this arguement because it really shows how little democrats think of the poor. Having an ID is a necessity, not having one will just hold them back.

[GeraldCortis]

Perhaps you missed the point. I obviously don't think Clinton is racist... but how is requiring an ID to vote equivilent to Jim Crow... and why would it be harder for democrats and African Americans to get an ID?

Read his actual words, not the WSJ's or whatever you want the words to be.

He never said "democrats and African Americans", yet you've used that construct twice. Nor did he said that they have a hard time getting an ID, the WSJ "presumed" that. He just said that these laws are an attempt to restrict voting.

[Eagevawax]

Oh I don't know? Maybe they don't have bus fare or gas money? Maybe they don't have time between the 3 minimum wage jobs they have? There are tons of reasons, and I would venture to guess many studies would show why it is more of a burden on the lower socio economic classes. Why must we play cute about it?

Well I would venture that you would never allow your children or anyone who works for you, to avoid their compliance with simple responsibilities with the very excuses that you offer as legitimate if used by others.

[KixdricyArrip]

People living in low social economic areas, are less likely to have cars and because of that, they're more likely to use public transportation. If your main source of transportation is mass transit, why obtain a state id? It's been a while since I had to interview for a new job, but I don't recall them asking for a state id either. Also, if you've ever found yourself in one of the poorer neighborhoods in the city, you'd notice a large amount of check cashing places, but very few banks. Your ID is scruntinized more at a bank, than it would be at a check cashing place, which generally only needs to see some sort of work id or equivalent.

I wasn't aware that voter fraud was so prevalent, that we have to mandate official identification.

[WGRocky]

Read his actual words, not the WSJ's or whatever you want the words to be.

He never said "democrats and African Americans", yet you've used that construct twice. Nor did he said that they have a hard time getting an ID, the WSJ "presumed" that. He just said that these laws are an attempt to restrict voting.

So he wasn't implying it? What was he implying then? Using the term Jim Crow sure seems to bring race in to me.

Here's more:

Like Clinton, many Democratic representatives have compared voter ID laws to the Jim Crow laws that limited many African-Americans' right to vote in the early 20th century. Democratic National Committee Chair Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla.) has accused Republicans of wanting "to literally drag us all the way back to Jim Crow laws and literally -- and very transparently -- block access to the polls to voters who are more likely to vote Democratic candidates than Republican candidates." Bill Clinton: Voter ID Bills Are Worst Effort To Disenfranchise Voters Since Jim Crow Laws (VIDEO)

[UBJ3kvP1]

It's been a while since I had to interview for a new job, but I don't recall them asking for a state id either.

At an interview, no (it may even be illegal). But upon hire you and your employer have to prove to the IRS that you're legal to work. A state ID can be part of that process, but is not necessary.

[Jellowstrom]

People living in low social economic areas, are less likely to have cars and because of that, they're more likely to use public transportation. If your main source of transportation is mass transit, why obtain a state id? It's been a while since I had to interview for a new job, but I don't recall them asking for a state id either. Also, if you've ever found yourself in one of the poorer neighborhoods in the city, you'd notice a large amount of check cashing places, but very few banks. Your ID is scruntinized more at a bank, than it would be at a check cashing place, which generally only needs to see some sort of work id or equivalent.

I wasn't aware that voter fraud was so prevalent, that we have to mandate official identification.

Also, you are presuming that everyone lives in a dense urban area where there are DMV agencies aplenty. In fact, millions of people live in very rural settings, miles and miles from nowhere (trust me, I've just driven through 6,000 miles of that nowhere). For those people, getting to a location that issues official state IDs is more than just a 1/2 hour trip during your lunch hour; in many cases, it is an all day event, requiring a car, money for gas, the ability to take a day off of work and/or arrange for child care, etc. And that's AFTER they are able to get a copy of their birth certificates, something many people don't have or keep (and which cost money to get copies of).

Oh, and the article? It lost me from the first sentence, and got worse from there. Among other things, the writer seems to ignore the fact that several investigations of ACORN turned up NO ACTUAL VOTER FRAUD on Acorn's part, or on the part of anyone who registered to vote through ACORN.

[MIBgirlsXXL]

Why are lower socio economic classes unable to get a free ID? Please explain. I find it elitist of you (and Clinton) to assume that lower socio economic classes are somehow unable to get such a basic necessity.

it appears this must be spelled out for you.

Many poor people lack cars and therefore don't have a drivers license. Many poor people lack decent education and may not know about the new requirements when they show up at the polls to vote and then get turned away. Even if the State does a great job in getting the word out that picture ID is required, some will not know about it and it will invariably be more adversely impactful on those who are poorly educated, don't have computers or don't read the paper. What's worse, is that there will be thousands of instances where a person shows up to vote-is registered-and is denied the vote becuase he/she doesn't have photo ID.

No matter how you slice it-this is plain and simple an effort to make it harder for poorer people and poorly educated people to vote.

It's insidious and elitist.

This is often a GOP tactic. In Philadelphia in advance of the 2008 election, the GOP petitioned to have dozens of polling places moved in AA voting districts. It's the same intent-just more brazen.

[BigMovies]

People living in low social economic areas, are less likely to have cars and because of that, they're more likely to use public transportation. If your main source of transportation is mass transit, why obtain a state id?

So you can open a bank account, purchase alcohol, cigarettes, see an R rated movie...

It's been a while since I had to interview for a new job, but I don't recall them asking for a state id either. Because we don't care legal immigration... but that's for another thread.

Also, if you've ever found yourself in one of the poorer neighborhoods in the city, you'd notice a large amount of check cashing places, but very few banks. Your ID is scruntinized more at a bank, than it would be at a check cashing place, which generally only needs to see some sort of work id or equivalent. Having a bank account is practically necessary to improve your economic status. If anything, providing a state ID for free would help the poor since they would be able to open a bank account.

I wasn't aware that voter fraud was so prevalent, that we have to mandate official identification. It just seems obvious to me that we should require an ID to vote. I would think both sides would want to do everything they can to protect against voter fraud.

[Ankeseiband]

So he wasn't implying it? What was he implying then? Using the term Jim Crow sure seems to bring race in to me.

Jim Crow was brought up as an example of voter disenfranchisement efforts. On some level I guess this "brings in race", but it doesn't mean that the comment is automatically all about race. This is similar to people jumping to conclusions about criticism of Obama.

I don't presume to read minds and there is literally zero context in the WSJ piece, so I don't know if Clinton was implying anything and what that might have been.

[Inonanialry]

Having a bank account is practically necessary to improve your economic status. If anything, providing a state ID for free would help the poor since they would be able to open a bank account.

based on recent threads i think it is pretty obvious that the same people who think requiring an ID to vote is a good idea would be up in arms about people being able to get a state id for free. Not to mention that in order to get the state ID they are also going to need a copy of their Birth Certificate (with a raised seal), it cost money to get that if you don't have your original. oh, and they also need proof of residency (two if they don't have a utility bill in their own name). but i'm sure those are easy for people to get too...i mean, they can just use their lease or mortgage..oh wait, they may not have those.

wait! they could use their weapon permit. that is accetpable as proof of residency! except you need ID to get the LCTF.

[kranskregyan]

Having a bank account is practically necessary to improve your economic status. If anything, providing a state ID for free would help the poor since they would be able to open a bank account.

Bank accounts cost money. It's not the ID that's stopping most people without accounts.

[ugosanchezo]

Also, you are presuming that everyone lives in a dense urban area where there are DMV agencies aplenty. In fact, millions of people live in very rural settings, miles and miles from nowhere (trust me, I've just driven through 6,000 miles of that nowhere). For those people, getting to a location that issues official state IDs is more than just a 1/2 hour trip during your lunch hour; in many cases, it is an all day event, requiring a car, money for gas, the ability to take a day off of work and/or arrange for child care, etc. And that's AFTER they are able to get a copy of their birth certificates, something many people don't have or keep (and which cost money to get copies of).

I'm confused... if you live in the middle of nowhere how do you do anything without a car and therefore a driver's license? How do you get to your polling place in order to vote?

it appears this must be spelled out for you.

Many poor people lack cars and therefore don't have a drivers license. Many poor people lack decent education and may not know about the new requirements when they show up at the polls to vote and then get turned away. Even if the State does a great job in getting the word out that picture ID is required, some will not know about it and it will invariably be more adversely impactful on those who are poorly educated, don't have computers or don't read the paper.

If we mail out letters, like we do when the poll location changes, how is that different? If it is so hard for these people who "lack decent education" to read, than how are they able to show up to a new poll location?

What's worse, is that there will be thousands of instances where a person shows up to vote-is registered-and is denied the vote becuase he/she doesn't have photo ID. This is just not true. They would be able to cast a provisional ballot.

No matter how you slice it-this is plain and simple an effort to make it harder for poorer people and poorly educated people to vote. I disagree, I don't think poorer people and poorly educated people are too stupid to get a free ID. I also think doing so would help them be able to function in society. Do we know the amount of people without a photo ID?

[/QUOTE]It's insidious and elitist.

This is often a GOP tactic. In Philadelphia in advance of the 2008 election, the GOP petitioned to have dozens of polling places moved in AA voting districts. It's the same intent-just more brazen.[/QUOTE]

What about Rhode Island? Not really a GOP stronghold.

Rhode Island embraces voter ID