[12Cickprior]

From CNN:

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- The U.S. trade deficit widened in May to the largest level in more than 2-1/2 years, as exports slowed during an economic soft patch, and imports picked up along with higher oil prices.

The nation imported $50.2 billion more than it exported in May, up from a revised $43.6 billion trade deficit in April, the Commerce Department said Tuesday.

It marked the deepest trade deficit since October 2008 and came in above forecasts. Economists surveyed by Briefing.com were expecting the trade gap to widen to $44 billion.

http://money.cnn.com/video/news/2011..._deal.cnnmoney

[BostonDoctorTTT]

Two solutions:

1) mport less stuff

2) Make more stuff for export.

The problem with the first is that American aren't going to give up their cheap consumer goods, and the problem with the second is that the CEOs of large corporations are unlikely to climb down off the vast piles of cash they're sitting on and open new factories, much less new factories in the US.

Prgonosis? We're boned.

[ligeplodore]

Two solutions:

1) mport less stuff

2) Make more stuff for export.

The problem with the first is that American aren't going to give up their cheap consumer goods, and the problem with the second is that the CEOs of large corporations are unlikely to climb down off the vast piles of cash they're sitting on and open new factories, much less new factories in the US.

Prgonosis? We're boned.

Remember all that stimulus money we spent? Instead of bailing out teachers (now getting laid off anyway) or subsidizing foreign manufacturers (see: septa's hybrid fleet, made in canada) we could have supported and encouraged manufacturing. Just like Germany did to great success.

[Sukadrukanga]

Remember all that stimulus money we spent? Instead of bailing out teachers (now getting laid off anyway) or subsidizing foreign manufacturers (see: septa's hybrid fleet, made in canada) we could have supported and encouraged manufacturing. Just like Germany did to great success.

The Stimulus Plan: How to Spend $787 Billion - The New York Times

Mind showing the class how much was spent on bailing out teachers? The purpose of the stimulus wasn't to narrow the trade deficit, it was to stimulate the economy and that's exactly what it did. PA and Philly benefited from it after all.

[yarita]

Remember all that stimulus money we spent? Instead of bailing out teachers (now getting laid off anyway)

They're getting laid off because states refuse to increase taxes one cent to pay their bills and there's little chance of more stimulus money from the Federal government.

or subsidizing foreign manufacturers (see: septa's hybrid fleet, made in canada) interesting spin. Most people would call it "building transit infrastructure".

we could have supported and encouraged manufacturing. Just like Germany did to great success. How? American corporations have made it clear that they have no interest in building manufatcuring plants here. Why build a plant where the workforce costs $20/hour when you can build elsewhere where the workforce costs you $2/hour AND you can charge the same for the goods here in the States once you import them?

[Nidsstese]

The Stimulus Plan: How to Spend $787 Billion - The New York Times

Mind showing the class how much was spent on bailing out teachers? The purpose of the stimulus wasn't to narrow the trade deficit, it was to stimulate the economy and that's exactly what it did. PA and Philly benefited from it after all.

It was about $40B as shown on that link. I understand the motivation to prevent layoffs, but without encouraging real job growth, the problem was just kicked down the road--witness the massive layoffs here, NYC, etc. because the tax base has continued to shrink. It makes more sense to me to shore up the base of the economy--industry--rather than subsidizing non-producers who buy imported stuff because we don't make anything here.

They're getting laid off because states refuse to increase taxes one cent to pay their bills and there's little chance of more stimulus money from the Federal government.

True to a degree, but a good stimulus would have grown the tax base. GDP growth is back to zero.


interesting spin. Most people would call it "building transit infrastructure".
Replacing buses is not "building transit infrastructure." SEPTA had to use the money to buy hybrids (which they bought from Canada--no new jobs here). Now that the money is gone they are back on diesel because hybrid isn't cost effective. They are still begging for money to fix rail bridges, rail wire, signals, etc. I think they remodeled a couple small subway stations (not City Hall/15th St) with stim money, that was neat. The stimulus did not improve Philly's transit infrastructure.

How? American corporations have made it clear that they have no interest in building manufatcuring plants here. Why build a plant where the workforce costs $20/hour when you can build elsewhere where the workforce costs you $2/hour AND you can charge the same for the goods here in the States once you import them? Germany is the second biggest exporter in the world. It's possible to have high wages and high QOL and still manufacture. Germany used stim money to keep factories open. We threw money at some ****ty road projects and bloated bureaucracy. Germany's GDP is set to grow 3% this year. We'll be lucky if we make 0.5%.

You heard about the new Bay Bridge in San Fran right? It was made in China. A country with the manufacturing, and specifically steel, history we have should never have to do that. Meanwhile, if you propose that a teacher pay a couple bucks more a month into their healthcare plan, the "labor" movement will erupt and Matt Damon will come down on your ass. Our priorities are totally screwed up. A proper stimulus would make sure that really big and important public projects like that are made in the USA.

Don't forget too that SEPTA's fancy new rail cars are made in Korea then assembled here. We can't make an engine or anything but we can glue some steel together. Actually if you read any of the article about that plant, you'll see we can't even do that right.

[xanonlinexan]

It was about $40B as shown on that link. I understand the motivation to prevent layoffs, but without encouraging real job growth, the problem was just kicked down the road--witness the massive layoffs here, NYC, etc. because the tax base has continued to shrink. It makes more sense to me to shore up the base of the economy--industry--rather than subsidizing non-producers who buy imported stuff because we don't make anything here.

You realize that that 40b isn't 40b to teacher salaries right?

While it would be just awesomesauce if states could be forced to start manufacturing 'stuff' it's just not going to happen. Ever. I might even agree that the US needs to start exporting something other than jobs, but that's not going to change a thing about the intention of the stimulus package.

[NofFoomiTot]

you've managed to post so much nonsense that's either half-true or complete mis-representations that there's no way I can address all of it, so I'm just going to focus on one bit:

Germany is the second biggest exporter in the world. It's possible to have high wages and high QOL and still manufacture. Germany used stim money to keep factories open. We threw money at some ****ty road projects and bloated bureaucracy. Germany's GDP is set to grow 3% this year. We'll be lucky if we make 0.5%.

Germany realized after the War that the way to keep its manufacturing base was by specializing in manufacturing only the sort of quality, percision items they'd started to make a name for making in the 1920s (they made a lot of cheap junk in that era and were the Japan or Taiwan of the age, but that's another story), so they've seen less erosion of their manufacturing base in recent years because they didn't have unskilled jobs to lose.

They also have a very structured economy and a strongly Socialist government. They actually had a fund set up to procide loans to small businesses in times of recession (I heard about it at the beginning of the year, when it ran out of money). They're prepared for economic downturns, and the Germans are willing to act in the best interest of society -rather than solely in their own best interest- in times of crisis.

But the biggest reason the Germans have a strong manufacturing base is that they have extremely strong labor unions who are actively involved with industry and government. For instance, when VW and Porsche were neogociating their merger, there were three groups at the table: the executives of the two companies, the auto workers' union, and the Bavarian state. The government was there because they're a major stock-holder and the car companies are the state's biggest employer. The executives were there for obvious reasons. The union reps were there for the labor force, and also as stock-holders, as the union is a major investors.

The union was actually in favor of the merger, as it was in the best interests of the bottom line of the companies. The only concession they demanded was that workers who were made redundant by the merger would be retrained by the state, which VW would pay for, which was agreed to.

That's how things work in a society which has strong labor unions which act in the best interests of its members, and it's really down to Socialism and labor unions that Germany is in such good shape that it can afford to bail out Greece and Portugal.

[popillio]

Two solutions:

1) mport less stuff

2) Make more stuff for export.

The problem with the first is that American aren't going to give up their cheap consumer goods, and the problem with the second is that the CEOs of large corporations are unlikely to climb down off the vast piles of cash they're sitting on and open new factories, much less new factories in the US.

Prgonosis? We're boned.

So the answer is Americans should pay more for consumer goods b/ they are made in America? What abt breaking down the walls of regulations, high taxes, etc so America can compete?

Why open a factory in the US when it is considerably more cost efficient to open one in Asia or Mexico?

Imported Oil is a huge part of our trade deficit so what do we do abt that? I say export all that green crap like wind mills and solar panels .. there is seems to be huge global demand for these items

[bpejjssoe]

So the answer is Americans should pay more for consumer goods b/ they are made in America?

Cool. Show me where he said that in his post.
What abt breaking down the walls of regulations, high taxes, etc so America can compete? More of a state issue than a federal issue. Think of Delaware and the benefits it offers for companies to locate there, then consider "Does PA offer anything like that?" When given the chance to tax the gas industry, our corrupt governor opened his pocket and watched it fill up.

[mQb0aVZe]

ARRA and many other laws have a "buy american" clause. There are waiver provisions, and many projects get waivers. While I agree with your overall point, it was not viable to build manufacturing infrastructure as part of a short-term stimulus.

[Cinzomzm]

Think of Delaware and the benefits it offers for companies to locate there, then consider "Does PA offer anything like that?" When given the chance to tax the gas industry, our corrupt governor opened his pocket and watched it fill up.

I don't follow your logic here. Are you suggesting that PA should tax the gas industry or should follow Delaware's lead and make the state more attractive to businesses to locate here? What's noteworthy in the difference is that the work being done by many companies in Delaware can and would be done elserwhere if delaware laws were changed, but with gas, you can only drill where the gas is... so, it would seem that Delaware's policies are reducing aggregate tax collections, whereas PA's policy on gas is not (in fact it's increasing tax revs)

[Liaiskelile]

So the answer is Americans should pay more for consumer goods b/ they are made in America?

Cool. Show me where he said that in his post.

The problem with the first is that American aren't going to give up their cheap consumer goods,

What abt breaking down the walls of regulations, high taxes, etc so America can compete?

More of a state issue than a federal issue.

LMFAO .. yep those right to work states lost a ton of manufacturing jobs b/ of state issues. When competing on the global stage states can only do so much when the tyrannical arm of the Federal Govt is always reaching in and grabbing more

[Qwjyrgij]

I don't follow your logic here. Are you suggesting that PA should tax the gas industry or should follow Delaware's lead and make the state more attractive to businesses to locate here?

Think it through.

First, almost every state in which the gas industry is running is taxing them. Mainly to support the infrastructure revolving around that industry. So taxing the gas industry is nothing new, but NOT taxing it pretty much is.

Second, Delaware charges no income tax on corporations not operating within the state, so the gas industry would still be taxed anyway. By your 'increasing tax revs' I assume you're referring to employees, but the industry has to pay for itself as well.

That explain my logic?

[sabbixsweraco]

Originally Posted by Mr. Morley The problem with the first is that American aren't going to give up their cheap consumer goods,

You said:

So the answer is Americans should pay more for consumer goods b/ they are made in America?

Read much? Think McFly. Think.

So long as Americans are WILLING to turn to cheaper outside goods those goods will keep on rolling in. Look at your cellphone. See the battery in it? You can buy a spare at ATT for $25 plus tax or get 3 of them for $10 via a Hong Kong seller on ebay. Which do you go for?

LMFAO .. yep those right to work states lost a ton of manufacturing jobs b/ of state issues. When competing on the global stage states can only do so much when the tyrannical arm of the Federal Govt is always reaching in and grabbing more It's hard not to call you an idiot when you say really stupid sh!t.

[vesiasmepay]

Think it through.

First, almost every state in which the gas industry is running is taxing them. Mainly to support the infrastructure revolving around that industry. So taxing the gas industry is nothing new, but NOT taxing it pretty much is.

Second, Delaware charges no income tax on corporations not operating within the state, so the gas industry would still be taxed anyway. By your 'increasing tax revs' I assume you're referring to employees, but the industry has to pay for itself as well.

That explain my logic?

No, it doesn't. What I don't follow is in knowing if you advocate for Delaware's business-favorable environment for creating jobs. I take it that you think PA should tax the gas companies. While I'm not opposed to doing so, it's counter-intuitive to suggest burdening a job producing activity within a thread that laments the widening trade deficit (and inherent need for more domestic output of goods).

[HoniSoniproca]

No, it doesn't.

What are you not understanding? Or is it that you just don't want to?

What I don't follow is in knowing if you advocate for Delaware's business-favorable environment for creating jobs.

Which is why I listed Delaware's terms as being:

Delaware charges no income tax on corporations not operating within the state

Since the gas industry would be operating within the state, and not just their corporate offices, THEY WOULD BE TAXED INCOME TAX.

I take it that you think PA should tax the gas companies. While I'm not opposed to doing so, it's counter-intuitive to suggest burdening a job producing activity within a thread that laments the widening trade deficit (and inherent need for more domestic output of goods).

There's nothing counter-intuitive about what I've explained twice now.

[stoneeZef]

What are you not understanding? Or is it that you just don't want to?

Which is why I listed Delaware's terms as being:

Since the gas industry would be operating within the state, and not just their corporate offices, THEY WOULD BE TAXED INCOME TAX.

There's nothing counter-intuitive about what I've explained twice now.

I guess my comprehension suffers because I assumed your thoughts were contextual with the thread. Clearly that's not the case. If you're proposing that PA should tax gas producers, it may belong in a thread not titled "US trade deficit continues to widen". Perhaps it belongs in a thread titled.: "Stupid things people propose that retards US manufacturing output"

[hygtfrdes]

I guess my comprehension suffers because I assumed your thoughts were contextual with the thread.

Until you crawled from under your rock, my thoughts were pretty contextual. Perhaps you should stick your head back up your ass and sit this one out?
If you're proposing that PA should tax gas producers, it may belong in a thread not titled "US trade deficit continues to widen". Perhaps it belongs in a thread titled.: "Stupid things people propose that retards US manufacturing output" Perhaps your questions belong in the "I can't phucking read so I'll as stupid questions" thread?

Thanks for playing!

[Wdlglivi]

Until you crawled from under your rock, my thoughts were pretty contextual. Perhaps you should stick your head back up your ass and sit this one out?

Perhaps your questions belong in the "I can't phucking read so I'll as stupid questions" thread?

Thanks for playing!

You're quite welcome, my foul mouthed friend. I'm particularly impressed with your ingenuity and wit. Specifically, how you responded to my comment:

Perhaps it belongs in a thread titled.: "Stupid things people propose that retards US manufacturing output"

With the eminently original idea of:

Perhaps your questions belong in the "I can't phucking read so I'll as stupid questions" thread?

Smashing good show!!! And the coup de grace, the talk of sticking "heads in asses" and your clever spelling of the F-word was just what I needed on a drab, boring afternoon.