[Opislossy]

I never said it was easy, neat or clean. A free market economy would be messy, the vast majority of us would lose big time with a very few number of tycoons at the top. You think it's bad now, this is nothing by comparison. The idea of pure free market is a romantic notion until you pull some of the curtains back--imagine quite literally no regulation. Each indiviual would need to be an expert at every nuance of every facet of life lest they be robbed blind by wordsmiths and fineprint that needn't be accurate much less in good faith...it'd be a nightmare!

So, kind of like ... now?

[Habalinnyf]

how do we decide if one has stolen or not stolen the invention from the first inventor?

Government-run and taxpayer-funded courts. Or we could let the free market sort it out. If I steal your idea and can market it better to the masses then I win.

[MaugleeRobins]

So, kind of like ... now?

I believe exponentially worse. Infinitely greater disparately between have and have nots; truly no middle class--not an existing one who feels trampled and repressed*

*no value judgement whether they are or not, just that it--a middle class--actually does exist.

[ReggieRed]

I never said it was easy, neat or clean. A free market economy would be messy, the vast majority of us would lose big time with a very few number of tycoons at the top. You think it's bad now, this is nothing by comparison. The idea of pure free market is a romantic notion until you pull some of the curtains back--imagine quite literally no regulation. Each indiviual would need to be an expert at every nuance of every facet of life lest they be robbed blind by wordsmiths and fineprint that needn't be accurate much less in good faith...it'd be a nightmare!

If I am selling a good or service in an unregulated laissez faire free market and that good or service is poor; I may take advantage of a few but the market (and my reputation) will correct that and I will be out of business. There will always be snake oil salesman with or w/out government intervention and regulation but the market (product & service) will weed most of them out

[wmtravelservice]

I believe exponentially worse. Infinitely greater disparately between have and have nots; truly no middle class--not an existing one who feels trampled and repressed*

*no value judgement whether they are or not, just that it--a middle class--actually does exist.

We have been losing our middle class over the last 40 years ... the Fed has made sure of that

[jeepgrandch]

I believe exponentially worse. Infinitely greater disparately between have and have nots; truly no middle class--not an existing one who feels trampled and repressed*

Which, it seems is happening now and getting worse in our "well-regulated" economy.

I'm not necessarily against some regulation, but I can't help but notice all the things you worry about are exactly what's happening, WITH exponential regulation controlling (often to the point of micromanaging) just about every facet of our economy and personal lives. That suggests at least the pendulum may have swung much too far in favor of overregulation.

[fapourfasiark]

Which, it seems is happening now and getting worse in our "well-regulated" economy.

I'm not necessarily against some regulation, but I can't help but notice all the things you worry about are exactly what's happening, WITH exponential regulation controlling (often to the point of micromanaging) just about every facet of our economy and personal lives. That suggests at least the pendulum may have swung much too far in favor of overregulation.

Why not let the states regulate the businesses and citizens within their border with out any intervention of a centralized federal govt in DC?

[WapSaibian]

We have been losing our middle class over the last 40 years ... the Fed has made sure of that

Yes, it has, by killing social programs, deregulation and lowering taxes on the wealthy.

You have an interesting debating style: every time you're backed into a corner or proved wrong, you dig up a new and completely unrelated Conservative talking point to post.

[autolubitelone]

Not necessarily ... we would still have a judicial system and the strong, high quality, honest corporations would flourish. Would some get hurt .. yes; nothing is perfect but the free market is the closest to perfection and it will promote more freedom and liberty that we have seen in 80+ years.

If I am selling a good or service in an unregulated laissez faire free market and that good or service is poor; I may take advantage of a few but the market (and my reputation) will correct that and I will be out of business. There will always be snake oil salesman void of any government intervention and regulation will weed most of them out

Assuming you can get into the market. Free markets also require knowledgeable consumers, and I maintain that it is not practical for us all to be experts at everything.

Are you advocating pure free market, or are we squabbling over how much and what we have is too much or incorrectly applied, or something else?

[nmnrIjGB]

We have been losing our middle class over the last 40 years ... the Fed has made sure of that

Yes, it has, by killing social programs, deregulation and lowering taxes on the wealthy.

You have an interesting debating style: every time you're backed into a corner or proved wrong, you dig up a new and completely unrelated Conservative talking point to post.

Please explain to me

1) What social program has been killed that has destroyed our ENTIRE middle class

2) What deregulation has destroyed our ENTIRE middle class

3) How has lowering taxes on the wealthy destroyed our ENTIRE middle Class

Answer those and I will give you five words that have done way more destruction to the middle class than GW & Barry combined ... also where and how all that wealth got shifted to

[BlackBird]

Assuming you can get into the market. Free markets also require knowledgeable consumers, and I maintain that it is not practical for us all to be experts at everything.

Are you advocating pure free market, or are we squabbling over how much and what we have is too much or incorrectly applied, or something else?

On a federal level I am advocating a pure free market .. states can decide how much and how lil regulation and govt intervention they do and do not want. I then have the freedom to choose where to take my business, family, etc .. I can choose how much or how lil intervention I want to live with

[Buyemae]

On a federal level I am advocating a pure free market .. states can decide how much and how lil regulation and govt intervention they do and do not want. I then have the freedom to choose where to take my business, family, etc .. I can choose how much or how lil intervention I want to live with

How would that work with regard to trade with foreign nations? Who oversees interstate trade an commerse?

[Thydaysuh]

Which, it seems is happening now and getting worse in our "well-regulated" economy.

I'm not necessarily against some regulation, but I can't help but notice all the things you worry about are exactly what's happening, WITH exponential regulation controlling (often to the point of micromanaging) just about every facet of our economy and personal lives. That suggests at least the pendulum may have swung much too far in favor of overregulation.

We've been decreasing regulations since JFK.

[BoboStin]

Please explain to me

ENTIRE

ENTIRE

ENTIRE

Well, there you go, shifting goalposts again.

[RerRoktoido]

Well, there you go, shifting goalposts again.

And yet another shinning example of liberal reason and debate; the absence of both

You make a 'talking point' statement ... get challenged to explain your 'talking points' and you post this

Well, there you go, shifting goalposts again.

Go back to watching CMathews and take some more notes

[qd0vhq4f]

No Govt. Subsides

No Green Initiatives

No Govt intervention

Just good old free market capitalism ... sure is good while it lasts

So back to the original question at hand: no federal intervention? What about this: http://images.apple.com/education/do...al_Funding.pdf

[i32I7qyH]

You make a 'talking point' statement ... get challenged to explain your 'talking points' and you post this

I'd be happy to explain my statements, had i been asked: you made a broad generalization about the "middle class" and I repsonded in kind. You then demanded that I account for the "ENTIRE" middle class. That's moving the goalposts in the argument, trying to force me to jump from the general to the specific.

Go back to watching CMathews and take some more notes I assume you mean Chris Matthews? Sorry to disappoint you, but I don't have cable, and I can't stand pundits.

[Optosypoeds]

So back to the original question at hand: no federal intervention? What about this: http://images.apple.com/education/do...al_Funding.pdf

How is that govt intervention in their business? They are marketing their product where the money is and going after Microsofts school business. No bailout, no cash for ipods, no green initiative or tax credits to coerce a citizen to purchase an ipad, no subsides to build a green macbook, etc, etc

They are just selling product to the entity that has stolen all the money fro the private sector .. if these schools where private they would still market to them .. just in a lil different way

[Wmshyrga]

Apple may be a U.S. corporation in name only. Most of its production and parts happen elsewhere. Its R&D teams are all over, though sure, the big heads are in Bay Area (in one of the most regulated states, no less!) What Apple does best on its own is marketing the heck out of its products. A lot of that work happens in the U.S. still. On the ownership side of things, Apple (like a lot of other U.S. corporates) likely keeps most of its profits overseas and does not repatriate them. Apple's bond and shareholders may be primarily Americans but nothing stops Apple from listing its shares and moving its share capital to some other stock exchange.

So I'm not sure I even buy the argument on its face value that Apple is some special American corporation or that it operates in a vacuum all its own. It operates in a worldwide marketplace and has wily lawyers finding ways to gain the system... does not mean we get rid of the system, it means we make it stronger.


Good ol' days of free market capitalism sounds like Dickensian London: a steam pile of ****.

[BWJfEkOB]

We've been decreasing regulations since JFK.

How so? The regulations on my car and what it has to have, what tests it has to pass, the fuel economy it gets, etc. didn't exist then. Ditto for the planes I fly and the lightbulbs in my house. The only real deregulation since that time I'm aware of regards airline and railroad service (but various requirements, such as safety, fuel economy, and noise have still gotten much, much stricter.)