[Jeffery]

Again last night we heard more about fairness and sharing. It seems that many who scream the most about sharing don't have much to share.

Who should get to decide what is "fair"?

We've all seen the #s as to who pays what in US taxes.
The top 1% of earners, make about 20% of the income but pay 40% of the taxes
The top 10% pay about 70% of all taxes
And the bottom 50% pay zero - some actually make money off of the system.

Is this fair?

Taxing the top 1% or even 5% sounds good to the masses but won't solve our debt problem. Obama knows this but would rather play the same old political sh!t that has been played for years and play the class warfare card. The same goes for the corpporate jet deduction that keeps coming up (BTW allowed by Obama's own stimulus plan) eliminating it would do almost nothing to reduce the national debt.

You want to pay more to help out the government? Go ahead. Here's how.

Send your check to:

Department G
P.O. Box 2188
Parkersburg, West Virginia
26106-2188

Be sure to include a note in the memo section of your check that the money is intended for the national debt.

Show me you cancelled check and then come back and ask others to be more "fair".

[Catalogov]

I don't know what bugs me more about this post: the collection of GOP talking points or the logical fallacies.

So instead, I'm going with this:

[duribass]

Articles: Among the Tax-takers

Among the Tax-takers
By Earl Wright


Among the Tax-takers
By Earl Wright

I worked for the IRS and survived. I learned about taxpayers, but the really interesting part of it was learning about tax-takers.

We all have this vague notion of people who don't pay taxes but receive money from Uncle Sam in what euphemistically is called a tax refund. That's what I had, a vague notion, until I was forced to close my business in 2010. I took a seasonal job with the Internal Revenue Service to get some household cash flow going. We "Timmy Geithner warriors" were appalled by what we learned.

We generally knew that 47 percent of our population pays no income taxes whatsoever. However, we didn't know, and I suspect that very few of you know, how much of your tax money is actually given to non-taxpayers -- in a lump sum, to do with as they please. Over lunch we joked that half the tattoo parlors in America would go under without Uncle Sam's largesse. Only later I learned that was closer to the truth than a joke.

Like most anti-poverty programs, the Earned Income Tax Credit when enacted in 1975 was supposed to be temporary. It was visualized as a tool to lift the working poor out of poverty. It was quickly made permanent and has been modified numerous times over the ensuing 36 years. In 2004, 20 million families received $36 billion. The flower children assume that was $36 billion spent on food, shelter, and health care. We who live in the real world know it was spent on big-screen television sets, 22-inch chrome wheels, and colorful tattoos.

It was widely noted last week that those living below the poverty level in the U.S. tend to own cars, TVs, computers, cells phones, enjoy air-conditioning, and own video game consoles. The free money these folks receive from you and me is not counted for poverty level calculations.

In addition, the feds estimate that between 22 and 30 percent of taxpayers claiming EITC do not actually qualify so we spend an additional $8 billion to $10 billion trying to straighten that out.

I can't talk specifics about my time at the IRS, but here are some generalities. Those claiming EITC also qualify for other so-called refundable credits (how can something be refundable when nothing is paid in the first place?). The typical 1040 would show an income of between $12,000 to $18,000 for the year. It was usually accompanied by one W-2 with the income earned almost always by a female. With other refundable credits listed, a "refund" would be claimed of between $6,000 and $9,000.

And these people believe that is their money; they have a right to it. I fielded a telephone query from a woman who didn't even say hello, but blurted, "I haven't got my taxes." For an instant I thought she meant that she didn't have enough money to pay her taxes, but I quickly realized she was talking about her "refund." We newbies learned that those who pay taxes have a general fear of calling the IRS and tend to be nice on the telephone, while those who don't pay any taxes believe they are entitled and are not always pleasant to deal with. We also learned these aren't the brightest people on the planet with many signing their refund over to a tax-preparer and then claiming they didn't know they had done that. (The "instant refund" scam perpetrated by many storefront tax-preparers is a whole other story.)

I mentioned the tattoo joke above. It turned out to be the truth in the only anecdotal story I heard during my stint at the IRS. A golfing buddy said his girlfriend's daughter claims EITC among other things and received a U.S. government check for $6,000. She used the money to take her toddler daughter and the child's ne'er-do-well father to the Monterey Bay Aquarium -- a couple hundred bucks -- and spent the remainder for a giant tattoo on her back. I'm so glad I could help.

President Obama has asked us to embrace "shared sacrifice" to help break the stalemate over the debt impasse while lecturing, "We might as well do it now -- pull off the Band-Aid, eat our peas." Well Mr. President, are you including the above-mentioned 47 percent in your shared sacrifice scenario? Should they pull off the Band-Aid while drinking their $5 energy drink in front of their 60-inch flat-screen TV? I know I would feel much more like brothers fighting the good fight if their hands weren't in my pockets.

[lkastonidwedsrer]

Stealing someone else's Intellectual Property is a no-no, Jack. Or don't you believe in the sanctity of copyright laws?

[Suvuseh]

I don't know what bugs me more about this post: the collection of GOP talking points or the logical fallacies.

So instead, I'm going with this:

That's funny, in an ironic sort of way, since Obama's whole BS pitch was the same stuff the left has been pedaling for decades.
The evil rich need to share.
Corporations are bad
Hey Granny, those right wing nuts are going to steal your checks and medicine.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure those tactics may have been used a few times in the last 40 years.

Let me know when you can post a copy of that cancelled check ok?

[offinoNem]

That's funny, in an ironic sort of way, since Obama's whole BS pitch was the same stuff the left has been pedaling for decades.
The evil rich need to share.
Corporations are bad
Hey Granny, those right wing nuts are going to steal your checks and medicine.

Really? Obama said those things in last speach? Then surely you have quuotes you can post!

[neotheMit]

I don't know what bugs me more about this post: the collection of GOP talking points or the logical fallacies.

So instead, I'm going with this:

I wonder if the debt ceiling negotiations are suffering from a similar give and take... you know, I disagree with you, so I'll contribute to the dialogue with a picture of a cute pony....

[10traistintarry]

Reagan expanded EITC.

[art_fan_12]

Reagan expanded EITC.

And he also expanded the debt yet there are Team Republicans that think a Romney, Pawlenty, Perry, etc can get our debt under control ... lulz

[Kneeniasy]

Really? Obama said those things in last speach? Then surely you have quuotes you can post!

If you aren't paying enough attention to pick up on those points when our great leader speaks, then you may want to watch what your packing into that pipe of yours.

[NumsAmenniams]

I wonder if the debt ceiling negotiations are suffering from a similar give and take... you know, I disagree with you, so I'll contribute to the dialogue with a picture of a cute pony....

I think we'd be better off it they were sending each other pics of ponies.

Here are two more relevant images:

[Ervntewc]

If you aren't paying enough attention to pick up on those points when our great leader speaks, then you may want to watch what your packing into that pipe of yours.

I asked you a question and you've chosen to be insulting. Classy.

So I'll ask again: I'd like to see you supply quotes from Obama's speach, backing up the claims you made in the initial post in this thread, or I'm going to call you a liar.

[Gskdmidd]

I think we'd be better off it they were sending each other pics of ponies.

Here are two more relevant images:

They are both neat and colorful. Actually that top one reminds me of a national park in Utah, but what's your point?

[Pashtet]

They are both neat and colorful. Actually that top one reminds me of a national park in Utah, but what's your point?

1) The wealthiest are paying far less in taxes than they have at any point since the Great Depression.

2) The Bush tax cut is a major component of the current budget deficit, and reversing those cuts would go a long way todays reducing the deficit.

Now, where are those quotes I asked you for?

[fuslssdfaa]

Again last night we heard more about fairness and sharing. It seems that many who scream the most about sharing don't have much to share.

Who should get to decide what is "fair"?

I asked you a question and you've chosen to be insulting. Classy.

So I'll ask again: I'd like to see you supply quotes from Obama's speach, backing up the claims you made in the initial post in this thread, or I'm going to call you a liar.

Since I am assuming that Juan stated that Barry spoke of fairness and sacrificing ... is this what you are looking for Morley (from last nights speech?

Transcript of Obama's speech: 'Make your voice heard' - CNN.com


That's not right. It's not fair. What we're talking about under a balanced approach is asking Americans whose incomes have gone up the most over the last decade -- millionaires and billionaires -- to share in the sacrifice everyone else has to make.

[Anymnillulky]

I have been working and paying taxes for 30 years, my demands on the system have not changed since I made 25k a year out of college and now, but my payment to support others has increased dramatically. According to the IRS I am in the top 10 percent, but I don't feel rich or entitled.

[DrCeshing]

1) The wealthiest are paying far less in taxes than they have at any point since the Great Depression.

Is it the governments money?

2) The Bush tax cut is a major component of the current budget deficit, and reversing those cuts would go a long way todays reducing the deficit. You have no clue as to what you are talking abt. Bush's damage was his out of control spending on 1 legitimate war (Aftghan). His mistake with that was that he choose to expand our empire and occupy instead of ending it in 2 weeks.

2) An illegal war and occupation in Iraq to further expand our empire

3) His Socialist domestic policy .... excluding his tax breaks where taxpayers get to keep more of THEIR money

Now, where are those quotes I asked you for? See my post #15

[Liskaspexia]

Since I am assuming that Juan stated that Barry spoke of fairness and sacrificing ... is this what you are looking for Morley (from last nights speech?

No, I'm looking for quotes where the President said (as Juan claimed) the following:

That's funny, in an ironic sort of way, since Obama's whole BS pitch was the same stuff the left has been pedaling for decades.
The evil rich need to share.
Corporations are bad
Hey Granny, those right wing nuts are going to steal your checks and medicine. And while we're on the subject, Jack, where's the proof of the 3000 reporters Lincoln had inprisoned during the Civil War that I asked you for yesterday?

[ENCOSEARRALIA]

Lets take granny's medicine and healthcare -
And we won’t have enough money to make job-creating investments in things like education and infrastructure, or pay for vital programs like Medicare and Medicaid. The evil rich need to share and corporations all in one -
Finally, let’s ask the wealthiest Americans and biggest corporations to give up some of their tax breaks and special deductions Here is the class warfare thing again against the rich and corporations -
Republicans in Congress are insisting on a cuts-only approach – an approach that doesn’t ask the wealthiest Americans or biggest corporations to contribute anything at all. And because nothing is asked of those at the top of the income scales, such an approach would close the deficit only with more severe cuts to programs we all care about – cuts that place a greater burden on working families. Some fun words -
That’s not right. It’s not fair A little more class warfare -
Keep in mind that under a balanced approach, the 98% of Americans who make under $250,000 would see no tax increases at all. None. In fact, I want to extend the payroll tax cut for working families. What we’re talking about under a balanced approach is asking Americans whose incomes have gone up the most over the last decade – millionaires and billionaires – to share in the sacrifice everyone else has to make. So all who make $250k or more are millionaires or better? Lie!

Let's take more from granny and vets while we are at it-
If that happens, and we default, we would not have enough money to pay all of our bills – bills that include monthly Social Security checks, veterans’ benefits More BS!

[Terinalo]

Lets take granny's medicine and healthcare -

The evil rich need to share and corporations all in one -


Here is the class warfare thing again against the rich and corporations -


Some fun words -


A little more class warfare -

So all who make $250k or more are millionaires or better? Lie!

Let's take more from granny and vets while we are at it-


More BS!

Uh Oh ..