[errolurberozy]

There still is hope. The neocons and their arrogance have left an opening that this whole whole race to war and violence as a way to operate on this planet could still back fire. 6-10 Americans believe Bush is dishonest. That wave is going to hit at some point. Racing to use murder as a priority tool is not something the world is going to keep tolerating.


http://www.texasobserver.org/showArt...ArticleID=2117

Impeach or Indict Bush and Cheney
by Ronnie Dugger

The year 2006 will be historic for the nation, and probably for humanity. Texans Bush and Rove and their conspirators in the second Bush presidency have disgraced American democracy at home and in the world with debasements of our nation and our values that have now entered their climactic phase. What part will the rest of us Texans play in this decisive year?

Our elections are bought, and our government is run by and for the major transnational corporations. Bush announced in 2002 his illegal presidential policy that the United States can and will attack other nations first, waging war on them, when he so decides. He is now waging, as if he were doing it in our names, a bloody war of aggression against Iraq, which on the face of it is a crime against humanity under the Nuremberg principles that we and our allies established and enforced with hangings after World War II. The President, the Vice-President, and their factors sold this war to Congress with twistings and lies that were crafted to infuriate and terrorize us about Iraq’s alleged connections to Al Qaeda and mass-murder endangerments to us from Iraq itself, all of which literally did not exist. In polls now six of 10 Americans do not believe the president is honest. Yet he has three more years of dictatorial control over our nuclear and other arms and our Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine Corps and seems now to be maneuvering to use that control to wage another aggressive war on Iran, with literally incalculable consequences.

The national resistance to Bush, Cheney, Rove, et al., is coming into focus, too. John Conyers, the ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, which is the logical source for impeachment initiatives, has taken the significant step of calling for an investigation of Bush and Cheney with a view to censure, which obviously could metamorphose into impeachment. Tom Daschle, until recently the Minority Leader in the Senate, Sen. Edward Kennedy, and Nancy Pelosi, the House Minority Leader, are all calling for investigations of Bush and Cheney. Elizabeth Holtzman writes for impeachment in the current Nation, and the Internet is on fire with initiatives to impeach Bush and Cheney for crimes committed in office, foremost among them lying our nation into a war of aggression. Impeachment is unlikely as long as the House remains firmly in GOP control, but this year it would be gratifying to see citizens seeking the election of House candidates—whether Democrats, Republicans, or independents—who promise explicitly to vote, if elected, to impeach Bush and Cheney.

If impeachment does not become possible, let me broach with you the idea that a grand jury, federal or state, should indict Bush and Cheney for their manifold official crimes. Are we, as we are so often piously assured, “a nation of laws and not of men,” or is the President above the law if his party controls the House and can block impeaching him?

The Constitution is silent on whether a seated President and Vice President can be indicted, while in office, for crimes committed while they have held those offices. Constitutional lawyers are congenitally prone to announcing that this cannot be done because it would disrupt the ongoing business of the government. But it is time to do it, if necessary absent impeachment, for exactly that reason—to disrupt the continuation of THIS government.

Committed to nonviolence, determined, in this post-Gandhi era, against violence, nevertheless we are once again in the position of the Framers of the Constitution. In the post-revolutionary emergency, the Founding Fathers took things in their own hands, violating their clear instructions from the states by proposing to create the United States, which the states then created. In the crisis we are in now we must not be misled by expostulating lawyers or posturing politicians. We the citizens can make up our own minds whether we can indict Bush and Cheney and, if they are convicted, throw them out.

May we close here, then, as we began two centuries and more ago, with the words of Tom Paine. “We have it in our power to begin the world over again,” he said. “The birth day of a new world is at hand… We are a people upon experiments. It is an age of revolutions, in which everything may be looked for.”

[slimsex]

how about both???

[Malinguenem]

I'd love to see american people kicking those corrupted cronies out of BOTH ruling parties, they have become almost like noble families of the past where position is assured by getting in or being born in to certain family.

[DP5Ups8o]

And another oh-so-original cut-and-paste. Why not just post the link? Because there wouldn't be a post without the cut-and-paste?

[snislarne]

Didn't the Dems set the standard for this with Clinton and his perjury issues? IIRC, the standard at that time was that a sitting Presidenct cannot be indicted.

What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Matt

[Paul Bunyan]

Didn't the Dems set the standard for this with Clinton and his perjury issues? IIRC, the standard at that time was that a sitting Presidenct cannot be indicted.

What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Matt

None of it is good. I am just as excited to toss out a corrupt dem as gop. I don't care. The corruption sickens me. It doesn't help when you have a president who literally hasn't turned away a single bill that crossed his desk. Not a one. If Congress wants to spend, he never says no. Disgusting

[Gedominew]

Yeah, I guess a better comment would have been what stinks coming out of the goose stinks coming out of the gander.

Matt

[AntonioXYZ]

As I remember the oath I took to join the USCG (eg, 'Defend the Constution from all enemies, both foreign and domestic.') I say that it's is obvious that the domestic enemies of the Constution occupy the White House via a coup, and therefore should be ousted asap.

[bxxasxxa]

Has anyone ever seen Joao and Cindy Sheehan at the same time?

[Frdsdx26]

Greetings gentle being's. New poster to this forum so Ial try not to make to big a fool of myself from the get go.

I have been seeing a lot of posts dealing with the impeachment issue. So here is my immediate take on the issue.

If, and its a big one, there is going to be any hope for a investigation into this issue. There will have to be a power shift in Congress. The Democrates must, come November, not only hold their current seats. They must also win back 15 seats to gain a clear majority. With out which they will never be able to force the House Judicial Committe to take action on a writ(sp?) of Impeachment.

Currently the Committe is controled by the Republican party. As such there is very little, if any, chance of it moving forward on any issue that deal with the impeachment of the President.

So the question is can the Democrates win enought seats to shift the ballance of power? Now I will qualify myself before I plunge ahead. I'am a card carrying independent. I have no faith in either party, and as such feel that Im unbias in my disgust with the Democratic and Republican Party.

That said I'am seeing that the Democrates are political cowards. They have failed to convince their base that they are willing to take the necessary measures to preserve the tenents of the their party. They can not show any form of unity. They have failed to show the resolve that is needed to confront a issue of national importance. Such as the ever widening scope of executive privilage.

How can they possibly be of the opinion that they will be able to pick up enough seats to take power in the Congress. Im going to be suprised if they are capable of keeping the seats they currently do have.

And let there be no doubt that the current administration will have no fear of Impeachment. It will simply never be allowed to become a issue beyond the ocassional outburst by the Democrates on the floor of the house.

[tactWeiccaf]

Greetings gentle being's. New poster to this forum so Ial try not to make to big a fool of myself from the get go.

I have been seeing a lot of posts dealing with the impeachment issue. So here is my immediate take on the issue.

If, and its a big one, there is going to be any hope for a investigation into this issue. There will have to be a power shift in Congress. The Democrates must, come November, not only hold their current seats. They must also win back 15 seats to gain a clear majority. With out which they will never be able to force the House Judicial Committe to take action on a writ(sp?) of Impeachment.

Currently the Committe is controled by the Republican party. As such there is very little, if any, chance of it moving forward on any issue that deal with the impeachment of the President.

So the question is can the Democrates win enought seats to shift the ballance of power? Now I will qualify myself before I plunge ahead. I'am a card carrying independent. I have no faith in either party, and as such feel that Im unbias in my disgust with the Democratic and Republican Party.

That said I'am seeing that the Democrates are political cowards. They have failed to convince their base that they are willing to take the necessary measures to preserve the tenents of the their party. They can not show any form of unity. They have failed to show the resolve that is needed to confront a issue of national importance. Such as the ever widening scope of executive privilage.

How can they possibly be of the opinion that they will be able to pick up enough seats to take power in the Congress. Im going to be suprised if they are capable of keeping the seats they currently do have.

And let there be no doubt that the current administration will have no fear of Impeachment. It will simply never be allowed to become a issue beyond the ocassional outburst by the Democrates on the floor of the house.

First, let me say welcome to the forum. Its great to see new posters here who do more than post 2 sentences bashing a given political party.

Now, to address your post...

I'm a democrat, so I may be a bit biased on this, but I don't see the democratic party as being weak. I see them as being a real party. Democrats tend to disagree with each other quite often, and never have a perfectly cohesive party stance. IMO this is the way it should be. A party should be in constant flux on its issues as new information comes to light. There should be dissonance within a party. This dissonance and lack of cohesion is IMO, all to often mistaken for weakness. In truth it is a strength, because while their message might become cloudy at times, it is an honest message which has been carefully considerd by the party, rather than a bunch of talking points created by a few think tanks.

I tend to agree with you, Bush is not likely to be impeached. I think the Democrats will pick up a few seats in 06, but certainly not 15. Right now they're not even able to filibuster Alito, so the few seats they'll pick up in 06 won't be enough for something as serious as impeachment.

The Democrats best hope for impeachment, is Bush himself. If he continues to pull stuff like wiretap Americans without a warrent, and if the Iraqi war continues to go badly, then maybe we democrats will get lucky. However it is extreamely unlikely.

[Gedominew]

Fogcity,

Also welcome,

I am not a Democrat- not nowdays, anyway, but was in the party- including holding elective office- from 1972-1995 (or six) when I quit paying dues. Based on that experience, here's what I've seen:

The Democrat's primary weakness has been and continues to be their inability to champion the causes of their major constituency (working people) as that runs contrary to the PACs, which are their major financial backers.

Note that the change in allegiance on the part of the citizens has been less of one from Republican to Democrat over the past 2 decades as it has been from Democrat to non-participant in the political system. This is a direct result of the Dems inability to stop the drain of industrial jobs overseas.

So, at present what do we have?

Well, a National Committee which bears the stamp of Bill Clinton, and is subsiquently by, of, and for the corporation, surrounded by state parties which run the gamet from mirrors of the DNC to remanants of the Progressive wing of the old party, as we have here in Wisconsin.

In short, it is a helluva mess and produces a weak, disjointed opposition which seems to stand for nothing, except more and better ways to get donations.

[Qnpqbpac]

Thank you one and all for the kind welcome. Coming from the Pacific Northwest I can say, with a reasonable amout of honesty, that this is Democrate country.
So IF the Democrates can show some continuity in policy there could be some hope. However, it is going to be a up hill fight. The feeling out in this part of the country is that the Dems are not up to the task of leading the nation.

[MightyMasc]

I just think that if this were Clinton, the Republicans would have made sure to exploit how much of a disaster the administration is in so many many ways. The Republicans would have the balls to stand up to the guy in the oval office for running a record deficit and executing one of the most poorly planned wars in U.S. history. But since it's their man who is at the helm, and since they pledge more faith to him than to their own principles, they just keep repeating the same bland statement about trying to protect us and that 9/11 changed things. Impeachment will never happen as long as the Republican party controls all three branches of the gov't, and as long as regular citizens stay idle instead of raising hell for the abuse of power that's been afflicted upon them.

[Helloheshess]

as long as regular citizens stay idle instead of raising hell for the abuse of power that's been afflicted upon them.

Afflicted? how is it an affliction if the republicans were elected?

[Binuilienzync]

LOL! This nonsense goes on endlessly with no results. Nope, Santa is not coming for you Democrats. No impeachment, no indictment.
Hell, key Democrats have known all about it from the beginning.
Afflicted?
LOL!
Who's been afflicting you?
Well, different thread, different day, same old whine.

[zU8KbeIU]

As I remember the oath I took to join the USCG (eg, 'Defend the Constution from all enemies, both foreign and domestic.') I say that it's is obvious that the domestic enemies of the Constution occupy the White House via a coup, and therefore should be ousted asap.

delusional.

[Pete789]

As I remember the oath I took to join the USCG (eg, 'Defend the Constution from all enemies, both foreign and domestic.') I say that it's is obvious that the domestic enemies of the Constution occupy the White House via a coup, and therefore should be ousted asap. Yeah, I've taken that oath several times and always figured it applied to the actual piece of paper and not "The Constitution", since we don't use it anyway.
If we were going to start arresting enemies foreign and domestic then the Democrats come into the domestic enemy category for sure.
Keep dreaming though, because dreams are nice.

[aceriscoolon]

Yes, I hear Dean is making the Impeachment of Bush a key issue in the upcoming Elections!

Yep, I think that is a wonderful idea! Impeach Bush as the Democratic "Contract with America". Plus you have Sheehan that can carry the banner as she defeats the Multi Billionaire Mistress Sen Fienstien of CA.

Sounds like a plan to me.

[Stainditnew]

A hell, you know the Democrats can't get elected as dog catchers so let them have their fun and dream about impeaching Bush.
Let them run against instead of standing for something, anything.
I love Howie Dean. Yeeeeeaha!