USA Politics ![]() |
Reply to Thread New Thread |
![]() |
#1 |
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
|
Checking press quality. How about over 200,000 best and brightest of Baltic nations deported by Stalin to Siberia where over 60% died. This is way more than Hitler ever did to Estonia. If there was a monument to people who raped, killed and all around conquered your small country you would like to have it in the middle of town too? Stalin = Hitler x 2 |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
|
Free Estonia from Hitler? HAHAHAHA ![]() Your digits at least "too much lie", but at most... ... ![]() Do you really understand what is 200'000 people for Estonia?! In whole Tallinn 400'000 people live now! Too small country for too much lie. ![]() This monument placed for memorize heroism of Russian Army, not Stalin. Stalin have not good reputation in Russia, but that monument have no relation to Stalin. Estonian prime-minister just got some points in political front. Price: memories and feelings of Russians, living in Estonia. Many of them are veterans, who save this World from Hitler. What about some respect to old veterans? ZippyTheChimp I start reading... |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
|
My poor victim of propaganda... Russia also has few friends now, even Belarus does not consider Russia much of a friend. This is a shame. Someday I hope Russia's government will wake up and realize there is a world outside. |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 |
|
Eugenius, although I do see where you are coming fmo in regards to Web's misinformation about different transgressions committed by the Russian Government, taking this pity/condemnation route will not get him to look elsewhere for information.
Web, take a look around and see if you can find any non-state sponsored (or blocked) website that tells the actual numbers there, rather than looking at what is there NOW and saying "this cannot happen". Interesting how your response does not deny that people were sent away to Siberia but rather the nuber sent. Did you also read that Eugenius said that these were from the "Baltic States" and not just Estonia? One final comment. Web, when you respond, try not to belittle people so much as if they know nothing. It may be from the translation of what you are truly trying to say, but you come off as very egotistical. Like a know-it-all talking to a child, and that is never received well. "My poor victim of propoganda" is not a good way to get anyone to follow what you say next, let alone believe it. |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
|
ZippyTheChimp
Read. Nice. Now they REALLY try to be objective. Except few articles, where some russophobians guys try to start again about "blody regime" and so on... I feel sorrow only because death of Litvinenko was PR'ed much more detally than anti-russism in Estonia. Stalin was not good man, but veterans of Great War just need more respect. Ninjahedge Now let's see real digits. Our goverment stay in situation of cross-fire. For the West Russia equal U.S.S.R. And Stalin looks like Russian lider (actually Georgian). For Russians Stalin was most awful what happens in communism age. That means official data was increment all digits of Stalin's repressions for down reputation of communistical politic party. This is inside Russia. Outside press increment digits too (!!!). This looking very strange, because official KGB document in Archive stand unsecret! Everyone can read another information. Unbelievable nonsense. For example: __________________________________________________ ______________ 1 февраля 1954 г. Секретарю ЦК КПСС товарищу Хрущеву Н.С. В связи с поступающими в ЦК КПСС сигналами от ряда лиц о незаконном осуждении за контрреволюционные преступления в прошлые годы Коллегией ОГПУ, тройками НКВД, Особым совещанием, Военной коллегией, судами и военными трибуналами и в соответствии с вашим указанием о необходимости пересмотреть дела на лиц, осужденных за контрреволюционные преступления и ныне содержащихся в лагерях и тюрьмах, докладываем: за время с 1921 года по настоящее время за контрреволюционные преступления было осуждено 3.777.380 человек, в том числе к ВМН - 642.980 человек, к содержанию в лагерях и тюрьмах на срок от 25 лет и ниже - 2.369.220, в ссылку и высылку - 765.180 человек. Из общего количества осужденных, ориентировочно, осуждено: 2.900.000 человек - Коллегией ОГПУ, тройками НКВД и Особым совещанием и 877.000 человек - судами, военными трибуналами, Спецколлегией и Военной коллегией. ... Следует отметить, что созданным на основании Постановления ЦИК и СНК СССР от 5 ноября 1934 года Особым совещанием при НКВД СССР, которое просуществовало до 1 сентября 1953 года, было осуждено 442.531 человек, в том числе к ВМН - 10.101 человек, к лишению свободы - 360.921 человек, к ссылке и высылке (в пределах страны) - 57.539 человек и к другим мерам наказания (зачет времени нахождения под стражей, высылка за границу, принудительное лечение) - 3.970 человек ... Генеральный прокурор Р.Руденко Министр внутренних дел С.Круглов Министр юстиции К.Горшенин __________________________________________________ ______________ Итак, как явствует из приведенного документа, всего с 1921 по начало 1954 года по политическим обвинениям было приговорено к смертной казни 642.980 человек, к лишению свободы - 2.369.220, к ссылке - 765.180. Следует также иметь в виду, что не все приговоры приводились в исполнение. Например, с 15 июля 1939 по 20 апреля 1940 г. за дезорганизацию лагерной жизни и производства был приговорен к высшей мере наказания 201 заключенный, однако потом части из них смертная казнь была заменена заключением на сроки от 10 до 15 лет3. В 1934 году в лагерях содержалось 3849 заключенных, осужденных к высшей мере с заменой лишением свободы, в 1935 - 5671, в 1936 - 7303, в 1937 - 6239, в 1938 - 5926, в 1939 - 3425, в 1940 - 40374. __________________________________________________ ______________ In whole U.S.S.R. !!! (Russia, Ukraine, Baltic countries and so on...) To death: 642.980 To jail: 2.369.220 To Siberia: 765.180 And this is will be logically to compare this digits to any another country and ask yourself "why". Why they was sent to jail, Siberia or dead. It was totalitarism, but law was ever stand ahead this system. For more imformation read this: http://stalinism.narod.ru/docs/repress/repress.htm Eugenious Friendship between Russian nation and Ukrainian, Belorussian, Georgian, Armenian, Kazakhstanian, Serbian, Slovakian nations and so on is really exist. Friendship don't need to have sop from one government to another. It just is. ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 |
|
In whole U.S.S.R. !!! (Russia, Ukraine, Baltic countries and so on...) From; http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm
|
![]() |
![]() |
#9 |
|
For more imformation read this: http://stalinism.narod.ru/docs/repress/repress.htm Let me get this strait.
To prove that the Russian government does not lie, or mask its facts to its people, I should look to a Russian site to confirm your claims? ![]() Web, when I said look, I meant look OUTSIDE your box. Very rarely do you get the person who is lying to you admit it when you ask them. |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 |
|
Let me get this strait. Also try stalinism.ru, revanchist propaganda glorifying Stalin and soviet empire. Basically says how great Stalin was and how much he did for Russia etc. There's alot of people in Russia that believe that Stalin was good for Russia mainly because of Russia's victory in WWII. WebErr; you completely discredited yourself by posting this nonsense. Everything you say now should be taken with a grain of salt, if anyone ever took you seriously before. |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 |
|
In whole U.S.S.R. !!! (Russia, Ukraine, Baltic countries and so on...) If you said 600,000 or 700,000 killed - I still wouldn't believe you - but I wouldn't have laughed so much. |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 |
|
In whole U.S.S.R. !!! (Russia, Ukraine, Baltic countries and so on...) ![]() WebErr: I, too, do not understand these ^^^ numbers. The numbers are precise. I do not understand their precise record-keeping. Is the record-keeping described in the Russian text you posted? If not, where can I learn about the record-keeping? Do you have an English translation of the Russian text? If not, could you give a short summary? Oy, I asked so many questions -- thank you in advance for your answers. ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#13 |
|
Well, another source, another digits, another view (in whole U.S.S.R.):
![]() ![]() More representative information from pofessors of history: http://www.osa.ceu.hu/2005/publicati...rorstatsru.htm Here we can see similar results with detally view for each year. Shown bigger period. Starts from Lenin. (Lenin died in 1924.) Stalin stood lider in 1929. As you can see in the picture. He was a monster, but your digits is lie. Mine is right. Null column mean year. First column mean how much people was arraignmented. Second column mean how much people was condemned. Third column mean how much people was put to death. You can check information. Archives is opened for visitors. It is history. And as you can see: propaganda in U.S.A. not much differs from propaganda of U.S.S.R. P.S. You see? This topic was start about crisis in Estonia. But now I need show information about Stalin! Why? No meter. I live "inside the box" in "primitive community". Aha-aha... Better look to photo galleries, where shown brutality of Estonian police. Nationalism in Estonia have very vivid contrast with talking about "democracy in Estonia". Hmm... what kind of democracy in the country of nationalists? |
![]() |
![]() |
#14 |
|
You see? This topic was start about crisis in Estonia. But now I need show information about Stalin! Why? USSR and Germany signed a non-aggression treaty in 1939 (Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact), which included a secret provision dividing Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, and Romania between the two countries. In 1940, Soviet troops moved into Estonia and annexed the country. The treaty with Germany ended when Hitler launched Operation Barbarossa in 1941, and German troops occupied Estonia until 1944, when Soviet troops reoccupied the country. Given the process of Russification, and that their country was illegally annexed until 1991, I think Estonians would not hold the view that their country was "freed" during WWII. Soldiers often get screwed during wars, especially when they fight for despots. Maybe the Russians should accept the fact that history is sometimes unpleasant, and just let it go. |
![]() |
![]() |
#15 |
|
ZippyTheChimp
Sorry. Term free Estonia from Hitler was wrong. Actually in WWII German soldiers think about Estonia like about part of Germany. And about Estonians as about people living in Geman province. But this monument memorize heroism of nameless Soviet soldier, who free countries, where Hitler was not so "gracious" as he was in Estonia. Actually after victory in U.S.S.R. Hitler could continue: U.S.A and U.K. And whole world then. I think monument for veterans have not any relation to annexy of Estonia. It was found for memorize Great Victory. This is just good place for our veterans, living in Estonia. Where they can meet now? Where is the place they can put the flowers in 8-9 of May? Monument was moved and access was closed. Old men and women, veterans of WWII, just need live well and have serene period of their life. They merit this right. |
![]() |
![]() |
#16 |
|
ZippyTheChimp sigh, WebErr theres is no point in arguing. |
![]() |
![]() |
#17 |
|
Eugenious
What about Poland, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and many, many countries? Everything Russia touches turns to shit Then who are you? Russia touch you too. ![]() Why old veterans must answer for mistakes of Stalin??? They only want to put down Hitler and help to Europe! They could stop on the borders of U.S.S.R. and leave people in Europe die by slow death under fascistic regime. About borders after the Great War: U.S.A., U.K. and U.S.S.R. subscribe document about borders. About Eugenious: you just need to check yourself for russophobia. ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#18 |
|
Eugenious Stalin is responsible for the human catastrophe in the Soviet Union during 30's, WWII and thereafter. He is also responsible for what happened to Eastern Europe and Baltic's. To make anything of him less than complete and total worst thing that could have happened to any part of the world in human history is a sacrilege to the memories of millions of dead. Stalin is the worst thing that ever happened to any part of the world in any country in any time period in know history.by far worst then Hitler and worst then Mao. |
![]() |
![]() |
#19 |
|
WebErr, I must compliment you. When somebody online says unpleasant things, you respond with humor. Also, you are tackling an extremely difficult subject in a language (English) which you do not know too well; and you are not giving up.
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#20 |
|
WebErr, I must compliment you. When somebody online says unpleasant things, you respond with humor. Also, you are tackling an extremely difficult subject in a language (English) which you do not know too well; and you are not giving up. What's amazing is that this real life Borat is the norm on Russian forums where nationalism and xenophobia is the name of the game. Racial hatred is alive and well in Russia, what most breaks my heart is that its raging in my beautiful hometown of Saint Petersburg where another person was brutally stabbed to death in their apartment this weekend, apparently because he taught in a hebrew school part time. Condoning the things the WebErr aspouses is just supporting hatred and racism. |
![]() |
Reply to Thread New Thread |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|