[Loopyjr]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/23...est=latestnews

A proposed Texas license plate created to honor Confederate veterans is under fire from elected officials who have vowed to protest the plate’s Confederate flag design, the Houston Chronicle reports.

"We cannot allow the state to issue a symbol of intimidation," U.S. Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, D-Houston, said to a crowd of community leaders outside the Civil Courthouse Saturday.

Lee and other officials plan to go to Austin on Nov. 10, when the Department of Motor Vehicles votes on the design, with petitions and a letter from 17 state legislators to persuade them to vote against the license plates.

Sen. Rodney Ellis, D-Houston, said that allowing these license plates would be allowing the people who lost a war to write history.

How would allowing a Confederate flag license plate "write history?" I'm from the Midwest so I grew up in the "North" my whole life but we can't sit back and forget about the history of the Civil War. We can't just ignore those that died and pretend like it didn't happen. I don't agree with slavery but the North wasn't much better. People had slaves in the Northern states.

The Confederate flag does not have to mean 'slavery' or whatever people want it to mean. Like it or not, it's part of the history of the Southern states and why can't they acknowledge their history? It's just to remember the Confederate soldiers.

I've talked to a lot of black people who say they don't get bothered by a Confederate flag. The only reason something has a meaning behind is that people let it have that meaning. It's just a flag. A flag doesn't promote racism anymore than an ideology promotes hate. People behind certain ideologies are what push those things.

I don't see the big deal of having available a license plate withe Confederate flag for those who want it. The Confederate flag is no more a symbol of racism than the swastika is a symbol of genocide and hate. Before the Nazis stole that it was used by many cultures throughout the past 3,000 years to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck.

[espabamar]

Surely I can't be the only one to see the irony in this? When you get right down to it, EVERYTHING about Texas has to do with slavery. After all, one of the primary reasons Texas declared their independence from Mexico was because Mexico abolished slavery...

[jeargefef]

Very true indeed, Pullinteeth. This is why, when I was stationed in San Antonio, I couldn't help but LAUGH everytime I saw a black person celebrating Texas Independance Day.

[Cigarsstoreonline]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/23...est=latestnews

A proposed Texas license plate created to honor Confederate veterans is under fire from elected officials who have vowed to protest the plate’s Confederate flag design, the Houston Chronicle reports.

"We cannot allow the state to issue a symbol of intimidation," U.S. Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, D-Houston, said to a crowd of community leaders outside the Civil Courthouse Saturday.

Lee and other officials plan to go to Austin on Nov. 10, when the Department of Motor Vehicles votes on the design, with petitions and a letter from 17 state legislators to persuade them to vote against the license plates.

Sen. Rodney Ellis, D-Houston, said that allowing these license plates would be allowing the people who lost a war to write history.

How would allowing a Confederate flag license plate "write history?" I'm from the Midwest so I grew up in the "North" my whole life but we can't sit back and forget about the history of the Civil War. We can't just ignore those that died and pretend like it didn't happen. I don't agree with slavery but the North wasn't much better. People had slaves in the Northern states.

The Confederate flag does not have to mean 'slavery' or whatever people want it to mean. Like it or not, it's part of the history of the Southern states and why can't they acknowledge their history? It's just to remember the Confederate soldiers.

I've talked to a lot of black people who say they don't get bothered by a Confederate flag. The only reason something has a meaning behind is that people let it have that meaning. It's just a flag. A flag doesn't promote racism anymore than an ideology promotes hate. People behind certain ideologies are what push those things.

I don't see the big deal of having available a license plate withe Confederate flag for those who want it. The Confederate flag is no more a symbol of racism than the swastika is a symbol of genocide and hate. Before the Nazis stole that it was used by many cultures throughout the past 3,000 years to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck.

One of the issues that has been conveniently forgotten is the process the 11 Confederate States had to go through to be accepted back in the fold as “Loyal American States.” I recommend that you all read this summary version of what happened. I am sure it will answer some of your questions on this subject:
Readmission of states definition of Readmission of states in the Free Online Encyclopedia.

[robinthesearchmasterh]

One of the issues that has been conveniently forgotten is the process the 11 Confederate States had to go through to be accepted back in the fold as “Loyal American States.” I recommend that you all read this summary version of what happened. I am sure it will answer some of your questions on this subject:
Readmission of states definition of Readmission of states in the Free Online Encyclopedia.

While a little history lesson is always appreciated, I couldn't find one reference to the flag(s) of the Confederate States. Did I miss the relevant part?

[rJohutozsfds]

While a little history lesson is always appreciated, I couldn't find one reference to the flag(s) of the Confederate States. Did I miss the relevant part?

Among other things, [like approving the 13th Amendment, which Texas never did], the 11 Confederate States were supposed to put away anything that could be considered support for the Rebellion and the Confederacy, and the Confederate Flag is an obvious example.

Unless the word "anything" is misconstrued, I would expect that it would be overkill to apply it, and then make a concise list of all things "Confederate" that were to be forbidden by the rules of Reconstruction.

One of the problems, of course, is the fact that the US Government re-opened that door by giving in on the Streamers awarded to units that participated in the Civil War. There were 25 campaigns in the Civil War. The streamers are equally divided with blue and gray. Units that received campaign credit as a confederate unit use the same ribbon with the colors reversed. Blue over Grey refers to Federal Service and Gray over Blue is indicative of the Confederacy, joined together they represent the unification of the country after the Civil War. There are numerous National Guard units that trace their lineage back to that war, and thus it is the National Guard units of the 11 Ex-Confederate States that have Civil War Streamers with Grey over Blue. This is the logical underpinnings for the use of the Confederate Flag itself, except that the Reconstruction Laws that require the abandonment of all things Confederate have never been formally repealed. Looking at this from the point of view of universal application, we are the only country that has suffered a Rebellion where the Losers were not either killed or ejected, and this subject has been accepted as one fit for discussion.

[SzefciuCba]

Among other things, [like approving the 13th Amendment, which Texas never did], the 11 Confederate States were supposed to put away anything that could be considered support for the Rebellion and the Confederacy, and the Confederate Flag is an obvious example.

Unless the word "anything" is misconstrued, I would expect that it would be overkill to apply it, and then make a concise list of all things "Confederate" that were to be forbidden by the rules of Reconstruction.

One of the problems, of course, is the fact that the US Government re-opened that door by giving in on the Streamers awarded to units that participated in the Civil War. There were 25 campaigns in the Civil War. The streamers are equally divided with blue and gray. Units that received campaign credit as a confederate unit use the same ribbon with the colors reversed. Blue over Grey refers to Federal Service and Gray over Blue is indicative of the Confederacy, joined together they represent the unification of the country after the Civil War. There are numerous National Guard units that trace their lineage back to that war, and thus it is the National Guard units of the 11 Ex-Confederate States that have Civil War Streamers with Grey over Blue. This is the logical underpinnings for the use of the Confederate Flag itself, except that the Reconstruction Laws that require the abandonment of all things Confederate have never been formally repealed. Looking at this from the point of view of universal application, we are the only country that has suffered a Rebellion where the Losers were not either killed or ejected, and this subject has been accepted as one fit for discussion.

More history (I did not know about the battle streamers).

Couple of notes and a question.

Texas did ratify the 13th Amendment (on 18 February 1870).

The Act(s) were truly not repealed but their scope was limited as a result of ex parte McCardle when congress changed the law to avoid a Supreme Court ruling. They were effectively ended by the Compromise of 1877.

Where in the Reconstruction Act(s) does it mandate that the 'rebel states' "were supposed to put away anything that could be considered support for the Rebellion and the Confederacy" I couldn't find such a reference.


The battle flag of the CSA (and that is the flag which causes all the anguish) is arguably a symbol of slavery in the US and therefore it is understandable that some people find its display to be wrong. Both sides need to acknowledge that it actually represents more than just slavery and is part of our heritage. Perhaps the answer is to just eliminate its display but the topic is worthy of a meaningful and honest discussion (minus all the rhetoric).

[indentKew]

More history (I did not know about the battle streamers).

Couple of notes and a question.

Texas did ratify the 13th Amendment (on 18 February 1870).

The Act(s) were truly not repealed but their scope was limited as a result of ex parte McCardle when congress changed the law to avoid a Supreme Court ruling. They were effectively ended by the Compromise of 1877.

Where in the Reconstruction Act(s) does it mandate that the 'rebel states' "were supposed to put away anything that could be considered support for the Rebellion and the Confederacy" I couldn't find such a reference.


The battle flag of the CSA (and that is the flag which causes all the anguish) is arguably a symbol of slavery in the US and therefore it is understandable that some people find its display to be wrong. Both sides need to acknowledge that it actually represents more than just slavery and is part of our heritage. Perhaps the answer is to just eliminate its display but the topic is worthy of a meaningful and honest discussion (minus all the rhetoric).

I understand why people would associate slavery with it but holding onto that meaning doesn't do anyone any good. The Civil War happened whether people like it or not - and depending on where you grew up you heard a different story about what "really" happened.

[PrettyFifa12]

While TX may wish to honor their confederate-era soldiers, can't they choose a symbol with less emotional/political/historical baggage? Or is the state purposefully trying to antagonize large segments of their citizenry?

[Tveabuti]

While TX may wish to honor their confederate-era soldiers, can't they choose a symbol with less emotional/political/historical baggage? Or is the state purposefully trying to antagonize large segments of their citizenry?

It only antagonizes people because they let it. Just like the N* word but that's another topic.

I've been reading into this. It's called the Battle Flag and it shouldn't have a racial connotation behind it. I do like the point someone brought up in article that it could be considered a symbol of treason and represented a nation that declared war. I don't agree with how the writer says that it represents a "willingness to rebel."

http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007...federate-flag/

That was just a different take on it -not saying it's fact.

I just think that the only way something gets meaning is if people let it. I don't see how a flag with a red, white and blue represents slavery - if that's the case then our flag should too. This was our first national flag: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Grand_Union_Flag.svg

Yeah Wikipedia but it's quicker. There's an X in that, should that be considered racist? Considering that until the Civil War - every state had slavery in it then couldn't the US flag represent slavery?

Of course people will say that's ridiculous. I say it is too - a flag doesn't represent what narrow-minded individuals do. When someone burns a US flag it irritates me but it's not like they're destroying America when they do it.

Honestly the Battle Flag should probably just be in a museum and we don't forget about that part of our history. But I don't see the problem if someone wants it on their license plate. Let them have the option. Just don't force it.

[Bounce]

The civil war didn't happen because the south wanted slaves.

It happened because the north sold all their slaves to the south and immediately tried to ban slavery.

If people don't like it they don't have to get the license plate.

My dad has a SC Sons of Confederate Veterans license plate. I don't see the big deal.

[Lt_Apple]

The civil war didn't happen because the south wanted slaves.

It happened because the north sold all their slaves to the south and immediately tried to ban slavery.

If people don't like it they don't have to get the license plate.

My dad has a SC Sons of Confederate Veterans license plate. I don't see the big deal.

I don't either. My brother had that put on his pickup - solely because of Dukes of Hazzard. He had an orange truck and he was obsessed with Dukes. I guess people in our town gave him shit about it. Which is odd because for the people in that town to decry a so-called "racist" symbol all the while they are the most racist people I have ever met...hypocrisy at its finest in my hometown. They drive out blacks and Hispanics but they are going to yell at someone for having that flag. That's how things usually are.

[Centurnion]

As a white male, everything I do is racist.

Remember folks, Diversity always means less white people.

Just a polite phrase for white genocide.

[ElisasAUG]

True dat..
I personally see no harm in the confederate flag

[Oberjej]

If I was a racial minority, I'd be a bit uncomfortable driving around with stars and bars on my license plate. Just my two cents.

[robstamps]

If I was a racial minority, I'd be a bit uncomfortable driving around with stars and bars on my license plate. Just my two cents.

It doesn't really say in either article whether this would be the Texas license plate or a commemorative one that people could get if they wanted to. If it's the latter, then no one would be forced to have that on their car.

If I was a racial minority, I wouldn't be dwelling in the past about things that didn't happen to me. People sacrificed so that others today wouldn't have to.

[HoqCBYMl]

It doesn't really say in either article whether this would be the Texas license plate or a commemorative one that people could get if they wanted to. If it's the latter, then no one would be forced to have that on their car.

If I was a racial minority, I wouldn't be dwelling in the past about things that didn't happen to me. People sacrificed so that others today wouldn't have to.

While I agree with you, the argument can be made that we must remember the past so we don't repeat it.

[RagonaCon]

While I agree with you, the argument can be made that we must remember the past so we don't repeat it.

Yeah and hiding that flag isn't really remembering the past is it? I'm not saying forget - I'm saying don't just sit there and use that as an excuse for things. People continuing to allow negative connotations to that flag aren't really remembering history. Plus depending on if you grew up in the North or South is what version of the Civil War you were taught.

[Phlkxkbh]

True, we do need to remember the past. BUT to me that also means the bad things.

[Sakkola]

True, we do need to remember the past. BUT to me that also means the bad things.

Well yeah but holding onto misplaced hatred or continuing to pass a certain intolerance or hatred down because that's how it is...that's dumb. Like some people born and raised in the South still are upset over the Civil War. It's been almost 150 years. I think it's time to let it go and people putting the Battle Flag with racism is dumb because it doesn't represent that.