[seooptiman]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/05...est=latestnews

An attorney for a graduate student claiming she was wrongfully dismissed from her counseling job at a Michigan college because she refused to work with gay and bisexual clients argued in federal court Tuesday that his client was discriminated against because of her religious beliefs -- while the school insists her actions violated school policy.

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit in Cincinnati heard arguments in the case involving Julea Ward, a Detroit-area public school teacher. In July 2010, a federal judge dismissed Ward's lawsuit against Eastern Michigan University (EMU) after the school successfully contended she violated school policy and the American Counseling Association's code of ethics, which forbids counselors from discrimination in clinical practice

I don't know what the American Counseling Association's code of ethics are as in if it says anything about religious preferences but she didn't discriminate - she did try to find another counselor after talking with her supervisor. So she still tried to help the client and I think she was right to do that in the view of making sure that person got the best counseling they could. So why would the school be upset about that? Now if she did violate the ACA code then it may be different. Don't counselors/therapists commonly refer patients to another counselor if they don't think they can help?

[comprar-espana]

If she hates gays so much, she should be willing to find a job where she doesn't have to deal with them.

And why does it even matter? She's going to Heaven when she dies, so anything that happens in this world is, to quote the book, "vanity".

[itepearce]

If she indeed tried to get a client help from a more amenable councelor, good for her, but if I was her employer, why would I keep someone on my staff who couldn't do their job?

I'm not sure what the code of ethics is for the ACA, I'm not that familiar with them, but I would imagin that its along the lines of not letting personal beliefs interfer with your professional judgment. So yeah, screw her. If your job is to help people and you only want to help certain people, don't be surprised when you're shit canned.

[unfolaReemoma]

Not sure I saw mention of 'hate' but par for the course.

[PeterPatrickJohn]

Pawning the student off on someone else is not helping them. The best way she could help was to remove herself from that situation.

[Effopsytupt]

If she indeed tried to get a client help from a more amenable councelor, good for her, but if I was her employer, why would I keep someone on my staff who couldn't do their job?
I'm not sure what the code of ethics is for the ACA, I'm not that familiar with them, but I would imagin that its along the lines of not letting personal beliefs interfer with your professional judgment. So yeah, screw her. If your job is to help people and you only want to help certain people, don't be surprised when you're shit canned.

I think you hit on the key point right here. Employment at Will. If it is in the policy of the organization to provide services and not exclude the homosexual community (and with current social consciousness towards this issue, I find it doubtful they wouldn't have a policy like that) then there is every reason to terminate the employment of an employee who refuses to adhere to it. She really has no legal precedent upon which she can display a "right" to work there. If that's her feelings on the issue, very well, try your luck with another organization who doesn't have that policy, if such an organization exists these days. Try her luck in the community of her church denomination maybe? I wonder if she'd deny counseling services to an individual if they revealed they engaged in other "sinful activities", if so then at least she'd be consistent, but I doubt it.

[secondmortgages]

I wonder if she'd deny counseling services to an individual if they revealed they engaged in other "sinful activities", if so then at least she'd be consistent, but I doubt it. How about a Christian who's married to an unbeliever? Unequal yoke, that's a sin.

Sex outside of marriage?

Loaning people money and charging them interest - bankers are going to hell too.

Actually, if she was consistent, she would refuse to service ANYBODY.

(LOL, I said she was "servicing" people)

[Meowmeowz]

Pawning the student off on someone else is not helping them. The best way she could help was to remove herself from that situation.

Not necessarily true. Councelors regularly refer patients to other councelors who may have more experience in certain areas that the inicial councelor doesn't. This is helping the patient. What this woman did was basically getting someone else to do her job because she didn't like the student for reasons irrelivent to her job.

[Master_B]

I think you hit on the key point right here. Employment at Will. If it is in the policy of the organization to provide services and not exclude the homosexual community (and with current social consciousness towards this issue, I find it doubtful they wouldn't have a policy like that) then there is every reason to terminate the employment of an employee who refuses to adhere to it. She really has no legal precedent upon which she can display a "right" to work there. If that's her feelings on the issue, very well, try your luck with another organization who doesn't have that policy, if such an organization exists these days. Try her luck in the community of her church denomination maybe? I wonder if she'd deny counseling services to an individual if they revealed they engaged in other "sinful activities", if so then at least she'd be consistent, but I doubt it.

Like Joe alluded to, when it comes to the issue of homosexuality, people who don't like homosexuals based on religious beliefs (if I just said "Christians" that would have been alot easier to type) are hypocrits. They are either bigots hiding behind thier religion to justify their ignorance, or they are true believers that can't understand their own logic-fail.

[BoomBully]

(if I just said "Christians" that would have been alot easier to type) For the record, I know you got harped on for just saying "Christians", but you really might as well. They're the only religion making complete asses of themselves... at least as far as America is concerned.

Sure Muslims hate gays, apostates, etc, but AMERICAN Muslims are mostly liberal. Same goes for Jews. You have crazy Zionists in Israel who think everyone else should just die (only after signing over all their land to Israel)... AMERICAN Jews are pretty liberal.

As for the American Christians... they burn Harry Potter books because it teaches kids witchcraft. Which causes more publicity causing more kids to read Harry Potter, and everybody laughs at the stupid Christians. Logic Fail.

[Breeriacoirl]

going to a counsel whom you don't "connect with" is one thing. being gay and going to a counselor who doesn't like gays, is a whole different ball park. counselors hav to deal with all kinds of people. and if she refuses to work with gays, find a different job, and ask, straight up, at the interview if they accept "that" type of clients.
and it wouldn't hurt to grow up and get a clue, either.

[JulieSmithXIV]

I wonder why she doesn't like gays?

Gay men are probably the only ones who treat her like a person, and not just another slut bag who dump her the next morning and don't return her tearful phone calls.

That was dark... where'd that come from?

[buchmausar]

I wonder why she doesn't like gays?

Gay men are probably the only ones who treat her like a person, and not just another slut bag who dump her the next morning and don't return her tearful phone calls.

That was dark... where'd that come from?

Answered your own question, you were channeling me.

[Pete789]

For the record, I know you got harped on for just saying "Christians", but you really might as well. They're the only religion making complete asses of themselves... at least as far as America is concerned.

Pursuit of accuracy, not really harping. Your last part is correct “at least as far as America is concerned.” As I stated, because the overwhelming majority of Americans are Christian.

Sure Muslims hate gays, apostates, etc, but AMERICAN Muslims are mostly liberal. Same goes for Jews. You have crazy Zionists in Israel who think everyone else should just die (only after signing over all their land to Israel)... AMERICAN Jews are pretty liberal.

Are we speaking of religious groups officially or individuals of a particular faith? If it is individuals of a particular faith, see my earlier remarks regarding numbers. If we are speaking of groups, not so much. The official Muslim groups condemn the practice. Jewish groups are of mixed opinions, divided along the lines they most often are (conservative, orthodox, reform and Reconstructionist. Christian groups are divided as well.

Zionism is more of a political movement than a religious one but I think I get your meaning. Speaking of Israel, you can’t even marry there unless you are Jewish. That is to say, a Jew can’t marry anyone but a Jew.

There are an estimated 300 thousand American Jews who live at least part of the year in Israel. In America Jews are usually liberal. Not true in Israel.

As for the American Christians... they burn Harry Potter books because it teaches kids witchcraft. Which causes more publicity causing more kids to read Harry Potter, and everybody laughs at the stupid Christians. Logic Fail.

That has got to be a pretty rare event. In fact I can only readily find two instances in the media (2002 in NM and 2003 in MI). Wouldn’t surprise me if more had occurred. I believe there have been cases of bestiality in the US too but I am not about to cite that US citizens like to bang sheep.

[BluewayAllere]

That has got to be a pretty rare event. In fact I can only readily find two instances in the media (2002 in NM and 2003 in MI). Wouldn’t surprise me if more had occurred. I believe there have been cases of bestiality in the US too but I am not about to cite that US citizens like to bang sheep.

Burning books isn't often in the news, but most of that type of group stick to lobbying to ban instead.

[ZwHRoTTn]

How about a Christian who's married to an unbeliever? Unequal yoke, that's a sin.

Sex outside of marriage?

Loaning people money and charging them interest - bankers are going to hell too.

Actually, if she was consistent, she would refuse to service ANYBODY.

(LOL, I said she was "servicing" people)

Exactly! (Typing extraneous words so MTF will accept this response)

[Obenuearema]

Like Joe alluded to, when it comes to the issue of homosexuality, people who don't like homosexuals based on religious beliefs (if I just said "Christians" that would have been alot easier to type) are hypocrits. They are either bigots hiding behind thier religion to justify their ignorance, or they are true believers that can't understand their own logic-fail.

Nail on the head brutha!

[SimSlim]

I do recall when I was young I went to a friend's house from my church. His family didn't allow us to watch "The Smurfs" due to the "magical" elements involved. I remember how I really enjoyed watching "The Smurfs" for a long time after that experience.

[P9CCd35R]

I do recall when I was young I went to a friend's house from my church. His family didn't allow us to watch "The Smurfs" due to the "magical" elements involved. I remember how I really enjoyed watching "The Smurfs" for a long time after that experience.

Stupid religion, if you make it taboo it becomes all the more fun to do.

[bromgeksan]

Stupid religion, if you make it taboo it becomes all the more fun to do.

Teaches a valuable lesson though if a person is paying attention. Taught me a valuable lesson about "zealotry" and the importance of seeking to remain grounded when you pursue philosophical endeavors, especially religion.