[Muesrasrs]

What is the frequency of Bishops moving jurisdictions? In my job I am encouraged to work under different managemnet styles by moving across country multiple times during my career in order to become a more rounded manager myself. Is this like that?

This from the Antiochian site:


TO BE READ FROM THE PULPIT AND PUBLISHED IN THE CHURCH BULLETIN

October 27, 2010
To: The Clergy of the Diocese of Toledo and the Midwest
From: His Eminence, Metropolitan PHILIP
Re: Appointment of His Grace, Bishop THOMAS as Locum-Tenens of the Diocese

Beloved in the Lord:

Greetings in the name of our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ. I pray you are in good health. As you are no doubt aware, our Local Synod of the Archdiocese met on Friday, October 22, 2010 in Jacksonville, FL. Among the things we discussed was the deteriorating situation in the diocese. As such, it was determined that the best thing was to transfer His Grace, Bishop MARK to the Diocese of Eagle River and the Northwest. A majority of the bishops of the synod agreed with the decision that this was in the best interest of the Archdiocese so that both the Diocese of Toledo and His Grace, Bishop MARK could have a fresh start. Citing health reasons, Bishop MARK said he could not live in that part of the country and subsequently requested to be released to the Orthodox Church in America. The synod agreed to his request and, at present, he is working out the details of his release with His Beatitude, Metropolitan JONAH. During this interim period, Bishop MARK asked to remain in the Toledo chancery until the end of the year. I agreed to this request and we will continue to pay Bishop MARK his stipend until the end of December.

Effective as of October 22, 2010 with Bishop MARK’s request to be released from the Church of Antioch, I appointed His Grace, Bishop THOMAS as the Locum Tenens of the Diocese. Bishop MARK will reside in the Toledo chancery as our guest until the end of the year, however, he will not be continuing his schedule of visits after this weekend (October 31, 20I0). If you had scheduled him to visit your parish and you have a major event or ordination planned in the coming months, you should immediately contact His Grace, Bishop THOMAS to see if he can make the visit or if other arrangements can be made until such time as a new bishop is elected and consecrated to serve the diocese, likely next summer. Likewise, effective immediately, only the Metropolitan is to be commemorated in the divine services in the Midwest unless Bishop THOMAS or another bishop is physically present in your church. This will remain in effect until a new auxiliary bishop is elected and appointed to oversee the diocese. Finally, I will preside at the 2011 Parish Life Conference in Cleveland, OH from June I5-I9 and expect full participation by all of the parishes. Please start planning from now.

Praying that this will mark a new beginning of healing and growth for the diocese, I remain,

Your Father in Christ,

Metropolitan PHILIP

[Daruhuw]

In my job I am encouraged to work under different managemnet styles by moving across country multiple times during my career in order to become a more rounded manager myself. Is this like that?

Erm... I'm pretty sure it's not. This is a very sensitive situation within the AOA. It's probably best we don't speculate about it here.

Suffice it to say that both Metropolitan PHILIP and Bishop MARK need our prayers.

That's all that needs to be said.

[smifatv]

Prior to his consecration, His Grace Bishop MARK was the priest at the parish that I attend. We all know him personally and love him very dearly. I do not doubt that they will be a good deal of distress when this letter is read on Sunday, although many of us knew that it was coming. As Fr. Cyprian has indicated, the situations behind this decision are not an appropriate topic for this forum.

In Christ,
Jeremy

[Jenisoisy]

Leaving the specifics out and addressing the main question, I don't think it is normal. That doesn't mean it hasn't been done before, but there is usually some specific reason for it. There have been a few instances in the OCA in the past for different reasons. The two bishops in Canada that came from a non-canonical church, and then two that involved retired bishops. The two retired bishops, one coming to the OCA and one leaving, were switching because of location. They were no longer in the area of the church they belonged to.

I wouldn't think that there is any kind of canon governing this, because the only reason back then for a bishop to switch churches would be geographic location.

That's my thought.

Sbdn. Anthony

[Muesrasrs]

Ok, then lets get past this specific case of this specific + Bishop.

What are the canonicle permissions to have Bishops or even priests and deacons move between jurisdictions? We are all one church right? So it should not be seen a bad thing if a Russian Bishop for example moves to the Romanian jurisdiction. Why are there even differnet jurisdictions within a given city? is it even permissable for a priest in one jurisdiction to visit another parish in the same jurisdiction without permission from his Bishop?

Paul

[Jenisoisy]

Paul,
most of what you are asking is not governed by the canons, which is the problem. The canons speak of moving between cities, etc., because there weren't multiple jurisdictions in one area back then. In America, the rules have been adapted to jurisdictions, so that, if a priest from the OCA were to go and serve in a GOA church in the same city, they would usually need the permission of both bishops. Now, in many places, there are blanket permissions like that given, say here in the metroplex where there is a big clergy brotherhood that serves together often, even the bishops get together annually for the Sunday of Orthodoxy.

I was looking through the canons last night, and many of them deal with clergy going outside of their diocese, but again, there weren't jurisdictions at the time, just the major autocephalous churches that didn't have representations in other churches' areas. The canons are very strict though on moving between dioceses with a letter of permission from the bishop.

And again, the only reason a bishop would really be moving canonically would be a change of location. Today, of course, there might be many reasons.

Sbdn. Anthony

[IACJdKfU]

This is very interesting information. Or at least for me being an Antiochian.

[wbondarmunw]

Very sensitive amongst we Antiochians right now, way beyond sensitive in fact: anger, rage, confusion, a feeling of betrayal whichever 'side' one finds oneself. The fact that there are 'sides' at all speaks to the horrible dysfunction we labor under. The overall issue that goes beyond the bounds of our archdiocease or whatever it really is extends to the proper use of episcopal authority and to whom bishops are accountble. If any thinks for an instant that your jurisdiction is safe and secure and such troubles cannot and will not come to you, you are mistaken.

I struggle to obey my own bishop's instruction to 'not loose my peace'.

Whatever the proper order is, it will take more than just us poor Antiochians to find and implement.

What is obedience for a lay person? When conflict arises, to whom do we owe our obedience? I came here tonight hoping for an insiteful word from my brothers and sisters and am greated with the statement that such questions apparently have no place here because they are too sensitive. Certainly we must refrain from personal accusations and denunciations, but if we cannot explore 'sensitive' questions in good faith with our brothers, how can we come to the truth?

Many are hurting and in great pain, some thinking of leaving the faith altogether. Can we not do more than pray and be silent? From the Antiochian priests who fear for their families, their livlihoods and their vocations I understand the silence, but others? Is it really our Cross to bear alone--are there no Cyrenians here at least?

[ButKnillinoi]

The place of the bishop in the Church and the Orthodox view of "authority" as reflected in the Patristic writings are certainly topical--opinions about the current actions of a particular serving hierarch, not so much, in this particular forum. There are many other fora out there where invective and opinion are much more prevalent than facts and insight, this is, hopefully, not one of them.

This might be a good time to review the guidelines in the Community Handbook.

While we do, from time to time, go off on tangential discussions, we do try to maintain a certain decorum. If one needs to "vent" there are plenty of places to do that, it is not in the charter of Monachos.

Herman

[limpoporanique]

Although these are valid as issues in their own light, this Forum is specifically to discuss the Patristic and ascetic basis of Church life, at most what in general lies behind such issues. So you may get some good insights here as to the specific issues involved. But since this is not a place for debate then you can also end up just as easily confused by what you read here. In other words we're not here to make up your mind for you. That can only occur with your priest/spiritual father, and in the environment of your parish, or jurisdiction, where your struggle actually occurs as a place of commitment.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[wbondarmunw]

But the problem is that our priests are essentially forbidden from providing and spiritual guidence by their obedience to the bishop.