[boXGWf04]

From CNN.com:

"Greek Orthodox and Armenian priests attacked each other with brooms and stones inside the Church of the Nativity as long-standing rivalries erupted in violence during holiday cleaning on Thursday."

Story here

Is this accurate? Does anyone know any more about this?

Yikes!

[Preorbtat]

A most sorrowful event. Lord, have mercy upon us sinners.

In Christ,
Antonios

[MP+4]

As sad as it is its quite common. The Church is divided between the 5various groups and they guard their territory very zealusly ( i believe some treaty years ago decided who gets what section). If they dont, they may end up losing it forever. Its been happening for decades, although brawls tends to occur more between the greek Orthodox and Roman Catholics, it still occurs. Also the Church of the Ressurection (Holy Sepulchre) does not have that "ambiance" of other holy places and monasteries. There tends to be lots of yelling (better than brawling) and the Church gets all sorts of secular and non-christian tourists who dont see the holiness of the place, its just part of there sight-seeing.

[acceraStoof]

From CNN.com:

"Greek Orthodox and Armenian priests attacked each other with brooms and stones inside the Church of the Nativity as long-standing rivalries erupted in violence during holiday cleaning on Thursday."

Story here

Is this accurate? Does anyone know any more about this?

Yikes!

Unfortunately, as Kosta says, this is nothing new. It makes me ashamed to even look at them. As my husband tells me, each person is responsible for his own soul, whether he be priest or layperson. Our faith and our journey towards God is very personal and should not be affected by such sinful behaviour.

Effie

[9mm_fan]

When people are passionate about something, this can happen. There are accounts of ancient Constantinople where people in the marketplace would come to blows with shouts of "God is One!", "God is Three!". Even the tradition of the Holy Fire of Pascha has its raucous element. I'm not saying it is necessarily a good thing, worthy of emulation, but hey, peoples is peoples. And the situation at the Holy Sites is certainly fraught with politics. That is why a Moslem family keeps the keys to one of the holiest Christian sites in Jerusalem!

"I love humanity, it's people I can't stand!" Linus Van Pelt

[boXGWf04]

When people are passionate about something, this can happen. There are accounts of ancient Constantinople where people in the marketplace would come to blows with shouts of "God is One!", "God is Three!". Even the tradition of the Holy Fire of Pascha has its raucous element. I'm not saying it is necessarily a good thing, worthy of emulation, but hey, peoples is peoples. And the situation at the Holy Sites is certainly fraught with politics. That is why a Moslem family keeps the keys to one of the holiest Christian sites in Jerusalem!

"I love humanity, it's people I can't stand!" Linus Van Pelt

Great post. Very helpful. Thank you!

[aAaBecker]

Dear Effie,

I suspect you should not be ashamed to even look at them if you spoke with them, for I wouldn't be surprised if there is much more to what happened than what has been reported in the media.

When one enters the Church of the Nativity immediately to the right is the Greek Orthodox Church the old Iconostasis (Russian Orthodox I think) is maybe 40 feet or so from where all the pilgrims and tourist walk by to get to the place of the birth of Christ. It can be very stressful for the Orthodox monks there particularly when so many people move by often times very loudly through that area. People can make messes and cleaning up big messes in sacred places can get frustrating, after all it's not an amusement park or movie theater. Personally I found the Greek Orthodox monks to be very kind, handling things much better than I ever could for sure, same with the Armenians. I'm not sure what happened but I'm sure there are many places where stances would be taken. For instance, I don't think the Armenians or just any person would be allowed behind the Greek Orthodox Iconostasis even if they pushed, etc. What I'm saying is reporters don't always understand some sensitivities, sometimes tempers might get stirred up a bit. Just like if a bunch of people came through your Church Effie and made a mess for a few days, people can get on edge. I'm not for the broomings and I suspect those monks had not been for that either.

Kosta is right on when he says, "There tends to be lots of yelling (better than brawling) and the Church gets all sorts of secular and non-Christian tourists who don't see the holiness of the place, its just part of there sight-seeing."

It is very difficult for the Greek Orthodox monks, the Copts and the Armenians at the Holy Sepulcher and other places as well. Secular and non-Christian tourists can show up scantly dressed, loud etc. So it can be very stressful for traditional minded Christians, you might find those Greek monks to be the salt of the earth even if the media reports otherwise.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

[acceraStoof]

Dear Effie,

I suspect you should not be ashamed to even look at them if you spoke with them, for I wouldn't be surprised if there is much more to what happened than what has been reported in the media.

When one enters the Church of the Nativity immediately to the right is the Greek Orthodox Church the old Iconostasis (Russian Orthodox I think) is maybe 40 feet or so from where all the pilgrims and tourist walk by to get to the place of the birth of Christ. It can be very stressful for the Orthodox monks there particularly when so many people move by often times very loudly through that area. People can make messes and cleaning up big messes in sacred places can get frustrating, after all it's not an amusement park or movie theater. Personally I found the Greek Orthodox monks to be very kind, handling things much better than I ever could for sure, same with the Armenians. I'm not sure what happened but I'm sure there are many places where stances would be taken. For instance, I don't think the Armenians or just any person would be allowed behind the Greek Orthodox Iconostasis even if they pushed, etc. What I'm saying is reporters don't always understand some sensitivities, sometimes tempers might get stirred up a bit. Just like if a bunch of people came through your Church Effie and made a mess for a few days, people can get on edge. I'm not for the broomings and I suspect those monks had not been for that either.

Kosta is right on when he says, "There tends to be lots of yelling (better than brawling) and the Church gets all sorts of secular and non-Christian tourists who don't see the holiness of the place, its just part of there sight-seeing."

It is very difficult for the Greek Orthodox monks, the Copts and the Armenians at the Holy Sepulcher and other places as well. Secular and non-Christian tourists can show up scantly dressed, loud etc. So it can be very stressful for traditional minded Christians, you might find those Greek monks to be the salt of the earth even if the media reports otherwise.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

As always Matthew I am very hasty when posting and think and type at the same time, then submit my post. This means that I frequently say things that should be said in a different way, although I am always very honest and say exactly what is in my mind.

I should have phrased it better. I am ashamed by the behaviour of these people, that is true, not the people themselves.

Thank you, Matthew for explaining in such an understanding and kind manner the reality of what these priests experience every day.

What annoys me is that these scenes are used frequently - every year - to make fun of the Orthodox religion. Reporters are addicted to sensationalism, I know, so we should expect such things, but perhaps the Orthodox monks could also be a little more circumspect in their behaviour - especially when there are cameras all over the place.

One of our dreams - my husband's and mine - is to visit Jerusalem.

Effie

[Asianunta]

And God said: "He who has no sin let him throw the first stone."