[Carol]

I thought this was interesting...

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/69001.aspx

[AriaDesser]

Perhaps not quite the same, but I was interested by a talk by an Anglican missionary bishop, who said that over the centuries many Muslims have, so to speak, been re-drawing the image of Mohammad into something much more like that of Christ. It is as if something is speaking to them over their ostensible rejection of Christianity.

[codespokerbonus]

Thats awsome news. I hope the growing number of conversions dont cause the fundamentalist Muslims to increase persecution of the Church out of fear. I can imagine the Egyptians for example making an example of the converts and attacking the Copts and the same thing in other Middle Eastern and African countries. Then again when did Muslim extreamists ever need an excuse to persecute Christians.

[xtc2d6u8]

I can imagine the Egyptians for example making an example of the converts and attacking the Copts and the same thing in other Middle Eastern and African countries.

I believe Pope Shenouda has excommunicated - or at least publicly distanced himself from - Fr. Zakariah mentioned in the article. This priest has led many Muhammedans to the Truth of Christianity, and as such caused outrage among Egypt's Muslims. No doubt the Pope feared a backlash against the Coptic community as a result of these missionary efforts.

[markphata]

Then again when did Muslim extreamists ever need an excuse to persecute Christians.

When did fundamentalist of any variety need an excuse to persecute those different from themselves?

[xsVfF9Em]

Dear Orthodox11,

+irini nem ehmot

The Pope His Holiness certainly did not ex-communicate Fr. Zakarias because of the success of his evangelistic efforts amongst the Muslims; that's just plain silly (and as an aside, the Pope has no authority to ex-communicate anyone in any event; ex-communication is a synodal procedure).

There have been rumours regarding Fr. Zakarias's being ex-communicated, but these relate to ideas (which are, once again rumours as far as I know) that Fr. Zakarias has departed from Orthodox teaching, and not because of anything to do with his activity amongst the Muslims.

Finally, His Holiness has publically renounced support of, or allegiance to Fr. Zakarias with regard to his anti-Islamic campaigns, on account of the manner in which he pursues his evangelistic efforts, and not strictly just to be diplomatic. Fr. Zakarias adopts a zealously aggressive and blunt approach to evangelism, and launches his attacks on Islam publically through every possible medium: T.V., radio etc., which in turn inspires alot of hatred in many Muslims as much as it does conversions. The Church does not advocate such an approach to evangelism; we should win the Muslims over through humility and charity, not through aggressively and bluntly insulting their religion publically on T.V. (regardless of how much such "insults" are based on the truth).

In IC XC
-Athanasius

[Srewxardsasv]

When did fundamentalist of any variety need an excuse to persecute those different from themselves?

Dear Elena,

Indeed, and a good point. The modern use of this word has always slightly puzzled me, since there is a sense in which Orthodox people are clearly fundamentalist - we believe in the Church founded by the Incarnate Lord. So, in that sense, the word has a meaning we could approve of, I think?

When did it get applied in an opprobrious way to what I would call extremists? I ask because certainly in the UK there are those atheists who use the word to tar all those who have a religious belief that goes beyond mere nominalism.

The point Athanasius makes about Pope Shenouda's line of the subject of this thread is an interesting one; surely we are commanded to turn the other cheek in these matters, not to condemn others? Or perhaps that is just my Anglican background?


In Christ,

John

[codespokerbonus]

I think there are a variety of ways of evangelizing and going about apologetics. At times it might be best to simple let your actions do the talking and let your "light shine " that way. At other times it might be best to point out similarities and areas of agreement with other religions - " your religion teaches x which is a great truth which can also be found in the Bible... etc" , but at times I do think the "fiery prophet" way is called for - " To teach that Christ is merely a man is blasphemy , repent and renounce Islam...etc." . If you look to the example of the prophets , the saints and even Christ Himself you will find times in which they acted as "trouble makers" and openly attacked other religious ideas. Like with the priests of Baal , Christ calling the Pharisees a brood of serpents, or openly telling people that they are fools for worshiping idols that are deaf dumb and senseless (or even destroying Idols without permission ) and such.

Please note I'm certainly not saying all forms of Islam are as bad as Baal worship or that the Islamic people in general are as bad as Pharisees. I mean I wouldnt put Rumi or the great Islamic philosophers such as Surawardhi, Ibn Sina, etc and such in that category. But the form of Islam that teaches that Christian evangelism should be illegal and that conversion from Islam should be punished with jail or often death (as in nearly all majority islamic nations) and certainly the form that gives rise to Hamas and the violent terrorist* mentality are just as bad. And even in the best forms of Islam the teachings on the nature of Christ are very far of mark.

I also understand that being critical of Islam can work to incite already violence prone Muslims to attack Christians. Basically I think it comes down to a matter of which tactic is more useful at which time and which tactic God is laying on your heart to use.

* I've seen some very scarey polls regarding that topic in Muslim nations that seem to imply that literally millions of Muslims support terrorism or terrorist organizations to some degree or other. In Pakistan Osama Bin Ladin is more supported then Geroge Bush (I'm not a big fan of Bush mind you but to like Osama better is just sad). And even the mainstream schools and midrasas (spelling ?) teach that the world is separated into two categories the abode of Islam and the abode of war and that the whole world should be subjected to Sharia law and that everyone must either convert, submit (and become second class citizens) or die. I was just listening to Catholic radio and the topic of Christian persecution in Turky (one of the more "secular" Islamic nations) and even there Christians as a corporate body are discriminated against and the state uses any loophole possible to prevent Christians from buying new property for schools, churches and such and is constantly using the law to take what little land the Christians already have

BTW there is an interesting book on Christianity and Sufi Islam out called " Paths of the Heart" and Bishop Kallistos Ware has a very good article in it. It discusses some of the areas of similiarty in ascetism and prayer and such as well as some of the differnces.