[Catieliecutty]

Dear Irene - thanks for your thoughts. I was thinking a lot about this, and I think I see it similarly to you. Perhaps Father Andrew was just using a different metaphor for the same thing. I tend to think that we all have Christ inside of us and we are either true or false to that True Icon - and I think this is what you are saying too. I think it is related to Christ's statement about the blasphemy of the Spirit being the only unforgiveable thing: that to whatever degree we are true or false to it, in relationship or rejection of it, we create values in the world somehow. (I'm sure I'm not putting that well.)

Maximos: thank you very much for those quotations from John Chryssavgis. That sounds like a great book to read and I will look for it. I heartily agree that technology gives us a greater responsibility, especially in terms of what I was talking about above.

Janine

[P3bWjm1j]

Alot of money and time and thinking has gone into militarising space and the weather. The technology exists and the American DOD has addmitte it intends to dominate space and weather in the near future. Australia has long been a testing ground for new weapons. The sun has also been very active lately, with many sunspots and x-class flares, coronal discharges and stuff. Our uniformitarian concept of nature, the cosmic environment and geologic changes, where environmental changes occur very slowly over millions of years are mistaken. Even if the environmental damage by humans theory is incorrect, or lies, our environment could still suffer massive geological, atmospheric, and interplanetary upheavals at unpredictable times, due to the electrical nature of the cosmic environment and military interference in the atmosphere. If our atmosphere is ionized and then manipulated with electromagnetic waves for the purpose of warfare or general power-madness, we might consider the chinese saying about trying to control the future, and cutting our hands for trying to use the masters tools.

[Apparpsmose]

Well if you are Australian you would be well aware that February being Summer is normally warm-hot. In fact, in my family, we have a lot of name's days this month, so a lot of celebrations in the past where it was very hot and humid - NSW Sydney area.

So what's with the weather at the moment?

ABC radio reports:

Melbourne 140-150mm or 6 inches of rain crushing all records for rain at any time time of the year in that City.
Sydney Wild winds, heavy rain, hail.
Canberra - Sleet
Snow! in the mountains
Dust storms in NSW and SA
Southern Highlands - heat followed by storms, power outages and lots of frightened animals getting lost because they are trying to out run the loud thunder storms (luckily we look out for our neighbours animals around here and try to return them to their homes.)

I have vaguely heard that it is not just Australia that has had out of season weather conditons. There was something about unseasonably warm weather in traditional skiing countries that was playing havoc with their tourism income.

If you keep track of the Orthodox England website then you probably noticed this article Here is a quote out of that article "The fear of God is the fear of losing God's love, that is, His protection and salvation. For if we have lost His fear, then we will not be repentant. And then we too open ourselves to the consequences of this loss, the acts of demons, whose aim is to take our souls captive and make us suffer through disasters. Although few realize it, the devil is the source of all suffering. Despite this disaster, we must recognize that if it were not for the mercy of God, the epicentre of this earthquake would not have been beneath the ocean, but in the centre of one of the teeming cities of Asia. Then we would not be talking of tens of thousands of victims, but of tens of millions of victims.

May God protect us and have mercy on us all, for there but for the grace of God go we."


Irene

[Greapyjeory]

Dear Janine & others,
Recalling the verses from Romans 8:19-22 may be of help in what you are searching for. " 19For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now."

On the Holy Mt of Athos I read or heard the following which really speaks: "Man sins, creation groans."

Maximos- good to hear from you again! The passage from Fr John Chryssavgis contains a number of very good points about creation but I wonder about the quotation from Origen. Owen would probably know better about whether the idea of a world soul comes from Plato or not. St. Maximos the Confessor tells us how each created thing has its own logos in the image of the Logos (Christ). And the nature of each logos finds its fulfillment in Christ the Logos. Whether Origen's intent was the same as St Maximos in using the concept of world soul is a good question. In any case we would want to know whether the earth itself as a planet has its own logos distinct from the creatures which inhabit it. To be honest I am not sure- it seems that looking at the earth in this way would be like looking at a house- a house is composed of distinct things each with its own nature (logos)-the way these are put together make up the 'logic' of the house- but this doesn't mean that the house actually has its own distinct logos in the sense that St Maximos meant.
Rather I would say that the house reflects the logos of its maker(s) (& ultimately Maker since man is in the image of God & the created things used to build the house also are God's creations). Thus unless we take Origen's world soul in a poetic sense (quite possible in hymnography etc) I wonder if it is not more correct to say that rather than the world having its own world soul the world is a reflection of the providence of its Maker.
In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Catieliecutty]

Here's what Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew had to say about strange weather patterns and human behavior.

Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew Encyclical Sept 1, 2002 - Day of Prayer for the Environment

[Peapeuddedbaw]

We had massive hail in Auckland in December, and snow in both islands, but since early January it has been extremely hot and muggy here. Summer certainly got off to a very, very late start in NZ.

[Apparpsmose]

Yes, the problem with me discussing the article from Father Andrew's English Orthodoxy site is that it comes out a bit new age-ish.

However, if I could get my thoughts straight....... The monks and nuns of the holy places like Mt Athos have been praying constantly for the whole world for centuries but their numbers are dwindling. We Orthodox Christian, lay people, our numbers do seem to be increasing again - because of people converting, but, there are still a lot of us, and I include myself in this, who are a bit wishy-washy, trying to fit into the world and still be Orthodox, battling daily with trite worldly matters.....

If prayer is at it's strongest with fasting and standing prayer etc (as with the Saints). Then my (current) prayer in non-fasting times, hurried because I have to rush off to work or somewhere else ... those prayers (of mine) must be pretty weak. And I know, by talking with other Orthodox people, that I am not alone in my pathetic attempts at prayer.

So, if the prayer from the Orthodox is weaker and the activity of the other side is stronger then.. well it makes sense to me, although I can't put it into words.... It ties up in my own mind with the whole Noah and the flood, Lot and Sodom and Gomorah thing.

I think we need to pray better and more.

In Christ
irene

[Apparpsmose]

Thanks for the Link Janine...Irene