[ThekvandoVideo]

Guns don't kill people. Burqas do.

Damn you - that was going to be my response to whatever sputtering Cerb came up with.

[JTS_tv]

I don't see how the law free's Muslim women. If anything, this just might back them more oppressed. Making someone take a citizenship course because they chose to wear something that's used in their religion, is insulting. I don't see how they equate wearing a burqa with some new form of enslavement, since women having been covering themselves up for a very long time.

That's basically their words, not mine.
I really don't understand the reasoning behind France's banning it either.

But, if the polls are correct, the large majority of French citizens favor a ban. But it doesn't say why. ??

[Si8jy8HN]

That's basically their words, not mine.
I really don't understand the reasoning behind France's banning it either.

But, if the polls are correct, the large majority of French citizens favor a ban. But it doesn't say why. ??

Because in France its a well established tradition even on the left that its acceptable to put the well being of "society" over those of the individual, particularly when it comes to religion. France left has a long, deep and overtly anti-clerical tradition in its politics.

On the right they are just freaked out that "non-French" cultures are taking over. The vast majority of their immigrants are Muslims, either Arabs from North Africa or from places in West Africa like Senegal. So for the right its about "preserving French cultural identity" like English-only laws here in the US.

Their whole political tradition is more about what the French Revolutionaries called "Republican values" (as in revolutionary "off with their heads" French Republicans), less about preserving Freedom of Religion for religious minorities.

Here in PA our tradition of religious freedom and tolerance goes right back to Penn's Charter of Priveleges (1701). Its a tradition I value highly as an American.

[Si8jy8HN]

Here's an opinion piece from those raging lefty's over at the Christian Science Monitor.
France must look beneath the burqa - CSMonitor.com

[emexiagog]

It's worth noting that police estimate there are fewer than 400 women nationwide who wear it. If that figure it anywhere near true, it sounds like they're picking on a very small number of people. Almost similar to Switzerlands ban on minarets. I would have thought that France was being overrun by women wearing burqas. I hope that France doesn't have a terrible backlash from this.

[Si8jy8HN]

If that figure it anywhere near true, it sounds like they're picking on a very small number of people. Almost similar to Switzerlands ban on minarets. I would have thought that France was being overrun by women wearing burqas. I hope that France doesn't have a terrible backlash from this.

Actually full coverage burqas are more popular here in the US with African-American converts than with immigrants from Muslim countries. Immigrants may dress conservatively, wear a scarf but the full coverage is not usually what immigrants here choose. Which is interesting in and of itself, I suppose.

Very few women in France wear burqas but for people who have never been to France it may be surprising how much of an immigrant city Paris and other large cities are. Paris these days is as full of immigrants from around the world as New York is. The burqua law is as much about French people uncomfortable with that as some of the dummer English-only laws here - the ones that say for example the government can't produce non-English brochures to stop the spread infectious diseases in immigrant communities leap immediately to mind.

[emexiagog]

Actually full coverage burqas are more popular here in the US with African-American converts than with immigrants from Muslim countries. Immigrants may dress conservatively, wear a scarf but the full coverage is not usually what immigrants here choose. Which is interesting in and of itself, I suppose.

Very few women in France wear burqas but for people who have never been to France it may be surprising how much of an immigrant city Paris and other large cities are. Paris these days is as full of immigrants from around the world as New York is. The burqua law is as much about French people uncomfortable with that as some of the dummer English-only laws here - the ones that say for example the government can't produce non-English brochures to stop the spread infectious diseases in immigrant communities leap immediately to mind.

Interesting. I def. noticed growing up in North Philly, a high number of African-American females who either chose or were "encouraged" to wear the burqa. Now that you mention it, I do notice that non-African-American woman only seem to wear the scarf and a kind of form fitting set. I wonder if some of these females feel less restriction when they come to the US, but they still want to show some aspect of their faith?

[cabonuserollyo]

Religion or not, I think making a woman, and only a woman, wear it is abuse. So you are a prisoner in your home unless you wear this, or we will cut your nose off. WTF?!

[Si8jy8HN]

I think it kind of says a lot about people who want to hold onto their faith without standing out vs. people who are attracted to their faith precisely because it is different from the Christian tradition that their parents and grandparents practiced - who want to underline that difference.

[ThekvandoVideo]

Religion or not, I think making a woman, and only a woman, where it is abuse. So you are a prisoner in your home unless you where this, or we will cut your nose off. WTF?!

Making a woman and only a woman wear a shirt is... abuse?

[Si8jy8HN]

Religion or not, I think making a woman, and only a woman, where it is abuse. So you are a prisoner in your home unless you where this, or we will cut your nose off. WTF?!

Agreed. But what about women who choose to do it? Isn't banning them taking away their rights, their control of their own bodies as well?

Like in my personal life I'm not a big fan but its not government's job to tell people what they can and can't wear on their own time.

[Si8jy8HN]

Interesting article about an American Muslim woman's choice.
How Muslim women decide to put on

[cabonuserollyo]

Agreed. But what about women who choose to do it? Isn't banning them taking away their rights, their control of their own bodies as well?

Like in my personal life I'm not a big fan but its not government's job to tell people what they can and can't wear on their own time.

Not sure. Also just notice I was so fired up I kept writting where instead of wear.

[cabonuserollyo]

Agreed. But what about women who choose to do it? Isn't banning them taking away their rights, their control of their own bodies as well?

Like in my personal life I'm not a big fan but its not government's job to tell people what they can and can't wear on their own time.

Banks, government buildings and I'm sure other places routinely have signs that say you can't wear a face mask.

[tattcasetle]

Not so warped, necessarily.
Take Halloween for example. Most stores today you will see signs saying, "No entry permitted with masks on".
The face veil is basically a mask. It masks your face/identity.

Unfortunately I can see Mel's post in your quote.

There are stores near me that have signs barring masks, hoodies etc....since they obscure the face.

Maryland: Man wearing burqa robs bank

Male Robber Wearing Burka Sparks Debate in Australia Over Banning the Burka

The 'burkha bandits': Robbers armed with knives and an axe wear Muslim dress to raid stores

Burka-wearing gunmen raid French bank

Bank security breached by burqa-wearing men

[ThekvandoVideo]

Unfortunately I can see Mel's post in your quote.

There are stores near me that have signs barring masks, hoodies etc....since they obsure the face.

What happened to your little cartoon sig of the guys trying to enter the business with the signs "no guns allowed" or something? Or, is the irony lost on you?

[treawittelf]

What happened to your little cartoon sig of the guys trying to enter the business with the signs "no guns allowed" or something? Or, is the irony lost on you?

Now you've gone too far.

[ThekvandoVideo]

Unfortunately I can see Mel's post in your quote.

There are stores near me that have signs barring masks, hoodies etc....since they obscure the face.

Maryland: Man wearing burqa robs bank

Male Robber Wearing Burka Sparks Debate in Australia Over Banning the Burka

The 'burkha bandits': Robbers armed with knives and an axe wear Muslim dress to raid stores

Burka-wearing gunmen raid French bank

Bank security breached by burqa-wearing men

Q: What do these criminals all have in common?

A: They're all Second Amendment patriots.**

**except for the guy in England where gun control is actually more than a farce.

[ThekvandoVideo]

Now you've gone too far.

When I get old they're going to have to pry my toupee from my cold, dead fingers.

[mikefertynnz]

The Mormon religious uniform for men is a two piece suit with a dark solid tie, and if you're a good little Mormon, maybe you get to wear polo+khakis.


It is hard to say that this is doing anything against religion because the French ban doesn't target male Islamists. It doesn't ban darshikis or hats.

This type of law would still have quite some problems in the US. We do have indecency laws against going outside nekkid, but not if you wear a bedspread. But then the Constitution doesn't say anything about Freedom to Wear. Burqas don't have any speech printed on them. I don't think anybody is afraid of women who wear saris, so it's more about the style and the face covering than anything else.

If we wanted to pass a law banning people wearing ski masks in banks, I don't think there would be much in the way of ACLU opposition to it (could be wrong, though). As much as the French attitude towards burqas it mostly a Western rejection of Middle-Eastern mores about women, I'm sure some crafty lawyers can make the ban stick.



Remember laws like this in France can be nix'd by the EU courts in Brussels.


If anything, I support the ban simply because the outfit is in rather bad taste.