[Lorionasodi]

And look at all they've produced since then. CENTURIES of total stagnation, pulled along only by the civilized cultures benevolently bringing our advances to them, and even then, only with mixed results.

Benevolence at the point of bayonet is more like it. Why the bayonet? Well the better to help them selves to all of those raw materials they did not feel they should have to pay a fair price for. That includes labor.

[Coellacag]

Benevolence at the point of bayonet is more like it. Why the bayonet? Well the better to help them selves to all of those raw materials they did not feel they should have to pay a fair price for. That includes labor.

It's odd that you think mercantilism and slavery are advances or benevolence.
I was thinking more along the lines of medicine, communications, agricultural technology, transportation, concepts like Democracy and the abolition of slavery.

[Coellacag]

Yes, where would the prosperous American Indian be today if not for Western Europeans?

Immolating and evicerating eachother in pointless wars? Suffering from untold diseases? Starving to death? Having no written language and relying on divine providence for survival?
Sure beats owning one of those pesky casinos and making a king's ransom selling tax-free cigarettes.

How about the colonized African nations? We generously brought large populations of them here and gave them work while providing a lucrative slave market in their home countries that had no long lasting delitirious effects.

Interestingly, slavery existed LONG before the first civilized person set foot in Africa, and if it weren't for the efforts of civilized men in high culture nations (mainly England and the U.S.) it would certainly be far more widespread than it is there today.
I don't know of too many black people in civilized countries that want to move to africa today. In fact, we have a significant problem with Africans sneaking into civilized countries.

And how about all the clearing of the rain forests we've helped out S. American countries with? Without us, they'd still be living in the forests instead of the wonderous and advanced ghettos in clean and safe cities they enjoy now. Our benevolence knows no bounds.

Strangely, there's virtually no movement towards going back to the rain forests. I guess sleeping in the rain, falling prey to all manner of animals, diseases, and foraging for one's sustinance isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Can our advances be perverted? Of course, this is still a low culture we're talking about. Firearms that we use for protection and to maintain order are used to terrorize, subjugate, and eliminate groups of people in the third world. But the majority of the advances we've shared with the savages has bettered their lives immeasurably.

[XU8i6ysK]

Guess I am not moving to Oslo.

Link

Masterbaiter.

[mv37afnr]

Can our advances be perverted? Of course, this is still a low culture we're talking about. Firearms that we use for protection and to maintain order are used to terrorize, subjugate, and eliminate groups of people in the third world. But the majority of the advances we've shared with the savages has bettered their lives immeasurably.

You make me sad.

[Caunnysup]

Are Indians low culture too? The guys who own about 30% of all startups in Silicon Valley...guys who owned hotmail, or the NASA engineers, 25% of whom are Indians. How about the large numbers of doctors who practice rural medicine in America so all the white-ass folks don't die off? I'm just wondering here, you know.

Here's the primer on all the bad-ass criminals and lower classes that populate American from that low culture country of India:

Indian American - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Coellacag]

Are Indians low culture too? The guys who own about 30% of all startups in Silicon Valley...guys who owned hotmail, or the NASA engineers, 25% of whom are Indians. How about the large numbers of doctors who practice rural medicine in America so all the white-ass folks don't die off? I'm just wondering here, you know.

Here's the primer on all the bad-ass criminals and lower classes that populate American from that low culture country of India:

Indian American - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"White-ass folks"? I see we have a raging bigot on our hands here.
India benefited greatly from 150 years of British rule which essentially built their education system. However, it's still a country of stark contrast. While indeed some from the upper castes have recieved an excellent western/civilized education, it's still a country rife with shocking poverty, backwards social customs, illiteracy, disease, and cultural/religious/ethnic hatred and violence (which you beautifully exemplify).
They're making progress, literacy, for instance, is up, but they need to continue to shed the backwards low culture and replace it with a high western one.

[Coellacag]

You make me sad.

I suppose discovering that some of your most closely held beliefs are wrong can do that to you.

[mv37afnr]

I suppose discovering that some of your most closely held beliefs are wrong can do that to you.

Yes, that is exactly what I was talking about.

[Caunnysup]

"White-ass folks"? I see we have a raging bigot on our hands here.

So it hurts when others talk in racial terms with you?


This guy reminds me of one of the losers from PhillyBlog... tannhauser or something like that. I complete loser case, where there is nothing to be gained by trying to talk any sense with him.

[Coellacag]

So it hurts when others talk in racial terms with you?

This guy reminds me of one of the losers from PhillyBlog... tannhauser or something like that. I complete loser case, where there is nothing to be gained by trying to talk any sense with him.

"Racial term", no, it's a pejorative. I assume you know that, but possibly you're not that familiar with English, judging by your response.
No, it doesn't "hurt", it's just a quality that's indicitive of a low culture.

[Flefebleaft]

I'm just curious how WWI and WWII fit into Viburnum's "feel good" personal mythology of western culture in the 20th century. Maybe throw in the Cold War and its related proxy conflicts too. It also seems the things that are most anathema to him/her (socialism, fascism, etc.) are unarguably products of the "good culture."

[Coellacag]

I'm just curious how WWI and WWII fit into Viburnum's "feel good" personal mythology of western culture in the 20th century. Maybe throw in the Cold War and its related proxy conflicts too. It also seems the things that are most anathema to him/her (socialism, fascism, etc.) are unarguably products of the "good culture."

It’s a good question.

If you examine it, WWI, II and The Cold War were all brought on by the aggressors breaking with the values of higher culture, specifically, what we call Judeo Christian values.

The paganism and occultism embraced by the Nazis as well as their hostility towards other, traditional religions dovetails nicely with low culture. The Soviet Union’s hostility towards religion again, represents a rejection of J/C values and directly leads to their bellicosity, hatred for other ethnic groups, duplicity, and subjugation of those under their rule.

To a lesser degree, as EU moves away from high culture, both through massive third world immigration and a growing atheism/agnosticism, their countries and cultures are deteriorating, of which socialism is a key aspect.

On a side note, both Haiti (96%) and the Dominican Republic (95%) are described as Christian. So why is one country simply a third world backwater while the other is a glimpse into the bowels of hell? Voodoo. Many of the “Christians” in Haiti practice a religion so infused with Voodoo that it would be unrecognizable to any Christian from a civilized country.

The same is true of much of Africa and South/Central America where their brand of religion is so infected with elements of animism or ancestor worship, that it bears little resemblance to actual Christianity.

Unfortunately, when Judeo Christian practices are fused with elements of low culture/religion the most virtuous parts of J/C are usually the first to go.

[qd0vhq4f]

It’s a good question.

If you examine it, WWI, II and The Cold War were all brought on by the aggressors breaking with the values of higher culture, specifically, what we call Judeo Christian values.

The paganism and occultism embraced by the Nazis as well as their hostility towards other, traditional religions dovetails nicely with low culture. The Soviet Union’s hostility towards religion again, represents a rejection of J/C values and directly leads to their bellicosity, hatred for other ethnic groups, duplicity, and subjugation of those under their rule.

To a lesser degree, as EU moves away from high culture, both through massive third world immigration and a growing atheism/agnosticism, their countries and cultures are deteriorating, of which socialism is a key aspect.

On a side note, both Haiti (96%) and the Dominican Republic (95%) are described as Christian. So why is one country simply a third world backwater while the other is a glimpse into the bowels of hell? Voodoo. Many of the “Christians” in Haiti practice a religion so infused with Voodoo that it would be unrecognizable to any Christian from a civilized country.

The same is true of much of Africa and South/Central America where their brand of religion is so infected with elements of animism or ancestor worship, that it bears little resemblance to actual Christianity.

Unfortunately, when Judeo Christian practices are fused with elements of low culture/religion the most virtuous parts of J/C are usually the first to go.

Ok-for once, a theory from you which is backed by facts and data. While I don't agree, I appreciate it's logic.

Now the reason I don't agree is to me the lack of influence of Judeo Christian religion in these societies is not the reason for the evil or agressive intent (Hitler, Soviet Union) or depravity (Haiti, Dom. Rep.) but a much more complex mix of socio economics abd resources (Haiti) and political influence and lack of democratic structures (all), and most importantly, the squelching of dissent (all).

I think it is fair to say religion has nothing at all to do with it. It is more a failure of democratic systems which causes state aggression and/or failure to allow resources to be accessible.

Christianity is strong in Serbia and you had exteme agression there recently. My guess is its the dominant religion in Cuba also. Just a couple of examples.

And if you've been to any Central-South American country-Christianity is alive and well and dominant-more so than in this country.

[Coellacag]

I think it is fair to say religion has nothing at all to do with it. It is more a failure of democratic systems which causes state aggression and/or failure to allow resources to be accessible.

And what causes the failure of democratic systems?
I assert it's the absence of Judeo Christian values intrinsic in high cultures.

Christianity is strong in Serbia and you had exteme agression there recently. My guess is its the dominant religion in Cuba also. Just a couple of examples.

Serbia (part of Yugoslavia at the time) was under the thumb of Josip Tito for more than 35 years and the Serbian Orthodox church was virtually wiped out. Even today, it's estimated that less than 10% of Serbs are actually active in the Church.
Cuba has repressed practice of any religion for 50 years and even before the revolution it was primarily a Santerian practicing nation. Animal sacrifice, communicating with dead ancestors and religious drumming aren't consistent with standard Christian practice, nor are the values it infuses into the culture.

[Forex Autopilot]

Why on earth would you think it has anything to do with race?
If it was a race issue, one would have to explain why people from all over the earth could come here and make contributions.
The reason people from anywhere can come here and make contributions is because they EMBRACE OUR CULTURE.
Granted, it's a whole lot easier if you come from another first or second world culture, but anyone who embraces ours has the chance to contribute.

As for education, the importance of education is part of culture.

The putting of a man on the moon is not, and never will be the equivalent of putting a bone through your nose.

What if you walk on the moon with a bone through your nose?

[Forex Autopilot]

And what causes the failure of democratic systems?
I assert it's the absence of Judeo Christian values intrinsic in high cultures.


Serbia (part of Yugoslavia at the time) was under the thumb of Josip Tito for more than 35 years and the Serbian Orthodox church was virtually wiped out. Even today, it's estimated that less than 10% of Serbs are actually active in the Church.
Cuba has repressed practice of any religion for 50 years and even before the revolution it was primarily a Santerian practicing nation. Animal sacrifice, communicating with dead ancestors and religious drumming aren't consistent with standard Christian practice, nor are the values it infuses into the culture.

The Orthodox Church was officially recognized by Communist governments all over eastern Europe and allowed to keep it's churches and clergy. The Roman Catholic and Greek Catholic suffered more.

10% active in church is probably right, but suspect 80% attend church in Serbia. Here Slovakia churches are packed, Catholic & Protestant. Here in the center of Kosice I could walk a block in any direction and walk into a church of some kind: Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox. Oh, and the synagogue is nearby as well and I believe it is active.