[Nfxutkpa]

I love this chart. I think we're over populated as is.

[xtrupoke]

malthus? what happens to the developing countries population curves when they become developed? what happens to countries agricultural production when they are no longer dysfunctional?

[Nfxutkpa]

malthus? what happens to the developing countries population curves when they become developed? what happens to countries agricultural production when they are no longer dysfunctional?

I still haven't read his book.

[Nfxutkpa]

Malthus' Essay on Population

[xtrupoke]

is it also possible that the fall of the US could set off a second dark ages?
isn't also possible the graph is wrong?

[Nfxutkpa]

is it also possible that the fall of the US could set off a second dark ages?
isn't also possible the graph is wrong?

The chart could be wrong...

World War
Bird Flu
Comet

Something could impact it.

[BWJfEkOB]

Something could impact it.

...like soylent green.

[xtrupoke]

The chart could be wrong...

World War
Bird Flu
Comet

Something could impact it.

geez, so negative. increased food production. developed of developing countries. It's been shown that as countries develop, populations level off. And of course, there's alwauys the possibility that the demise of the United States could set into motion the same kind of events the fall of the roman empire did....that is, half the world, or more, entered the dark ages where technological advancement took huge leaps backwards...which might mean the return of famine, malaria, and increased warfare. so far, the chicken littles have never been right, but there's always tomorrow.

[Verger99]

The only place that collapsed into the Dark Ages after the Fall of Rome was western Europe. Indeed, at this point in history, the nation of Ghana would begin to develop, centered around the upper Niger, where merchants could buy raw gold, transship it across the Sahara, and sell it to interested parties at significant profit. China was halfway through a funk brought about by the fall of the Han Dynasty, India, Byzantium, and Parthia were puttering along nicely, and of course the Arabians were about to emerge in a blast of hell-hath-no-fury upon the world and then themselves (unlike the Germanics) become civilized.

[xtrupoke]

The only place that collapsed into the Dark Ages after the Fall of Rome was western Europe. Indeed, at this point in history, the nation of Ghana would begin to develop, centered around the upper Niger, where merchants could buy raw gold, transship it across the Sahara, and sell it to interested parties at significant profit. China was halfway through a funk brought about by the fall of the Han Dynasty, India, Byzantium, and Parthia were puttering along nicely, and of course the Arabians were about to emerge in a blast of hell-hath-no-fury upon the world and then themselves (unlike the Germanics) become civilized.

I don't think you wanted the qualifier of western. eastern as well. I'm not as familiar with India but certainly Byzantium did fine for a while. still, it doesn't beleaguer the point that such an event might alter the chart. The fall of the US could usher in a period or warfare, power struggles, and chaos. or it could not. perhaps china would step in as the US did when the British fell from power. It's not impossible for such things to happen again though. I'm also not familiar with ghana and whether they used gold to build baths, toilets, roads, protect the roads, pay doctors, etc. I find it fascinating that Louis the XIV built a magnificent palace with no toilets, yet 4500 years earlier, people on crete had public toilets.

[Verger99]

Oh, the point was that while one particular culture had in a very short space of time gone from very sophisticated to not sophisticated at all most of the other cultures retained, if not outright gained, their levels of sophistication. Speaking about the Dark Ages as being somehow global is a very Eurocentric perspective.

[xtrupoke]

Oh, the point was that while one particular culture had in a very short space of time gone from very sophisticated to not sophisticated at all most of the other cultures retained, if not outright gained, their levels of sophistication. Speaking about the Dark Ages as being somehow global is a very Eurocentric perspective.

so ghana was more advanced the the Roman empire? You do realize that Mare Nostrum was more than Europe do you not? Since Byzantium was essentially an outgrowth of the Roman Empire (emperor constantine was eastern himself), it was a continuation of knowledge on a smaller scale. the demise of the Roman Empire was more than the end to "eurocentrism" but the end of the ancient period, of which the mediterranean dominated, not Europe who, according to the Greeks and Italians (and probably the Carthaginians and Phoenicians) were a bunch of savages. Nonetheless, besides calling me Eurocentric, you haven't provided any real examples. AFAIK, large portions of the world fell into decline, which would impact population numbers, esp when things like the bubonic plague wipe out enormous numbers of people. How advanced was ghana? India? the Romans held together a world from Asia to Britain. eurocentric is a modern term. A collapse of the US into the Dark Ages could leave large power vacuums leading to war, it could leave many countries more isolated, and a decline in global trade which could lead to further unrest. The US' reach is arguably greater than that of Rome, as was the British (and perhaps that's why they were more short lived). the world, just like the economy, is extremely complex so I'm not making predictions, just pointing out that this idea has been around for centuries and the assumptions never hold true for various reasons, and another "Dark period" could certainly change the assumptions dramatically. how much aid is poured into Africa helping fight starvation?

[gogFloark]

If the chart showed years after 2050, it would show that world population is going to peak around then and begin falling. In fact, the problem of the middle and late 21st century is likely to be population contraction.

(A lot of publications that want to anger people up use population charts that end in 2050. It angers up the greenies.)

And as it turns out, Malthus and his followers, like Paul Ehrlich, have a perfect 0 percent record. While Ehrlich warned that Indians would inevitably starve in great numbers, the relatively unknown Norman Borlaug led the Green Revolution that enabled that country to become a net exporter of food.