[Gogogo]

This is interesting; for a man who spent his Presidency reaching out to the religious right, the Methodists are trying to stop the George W Bush presidential library being built anywhere near an association with their name, stating "...Methodists have a long history of social conscience, so questions about the conduct of this president are very concerning". It would seem that as time passes Bush's once indelible hold to "power" is being further eroded, as first the Party started to look elsewhere, and now his "base" is also.

Ministers launch petition to stop Bush library - CNN.com
DALLAS, Texas (AP) -- A group of Methodist ministers from across the nation launched an online petition drive Thursday urging Southern Methodist University to stop trying to land George W. Bush's presidential library.

The petition, on a newly created Web site, http://www.protectsmu.orgexternal link, says that "as United Methodists, we believe that the linking of his presidency with a university bearing the Methodist name is utterly inappropriate."

"Methodists have a long history of social conscience, so questions about the conduct of this president are very concerning," said one of the petition's organizers, the Rev. Andrew J. Weaver of New York, who graduated from SMU's Perkins School of Theology.

Brad Cheves, SMU's vice president for external affairs and development, said Thursday that the Methodist church is diverse in its membership and opinions and that those involved with the petition reflect only one view.

"We believe the vast majority of the Methodist membership, university and community support the library and that it will benefit the faculty, students and community for generations to come," Cheves said.

SMU emerged as the apparent winner in the library competition last month when the site selection committee said it was entering into further discussions with just SMU, the 11,000-student, private university, which is first lady Laura Bush's alma mater. The Bushes are Methodists.

Some SMU professors have opposed Bush's foreign policy, mainly the war in Iraq. Some faculty members also have complained that the library complex's think tank dedicated to the philosophy of the Bush administration would hurt the school's reputation.

But at a faculty meeting Wednesday, SMU President R. Gerald Turner said those fears were unfounded. He said among the library's benefits were increasing the school's visibility nationwide and spurring economic development in the city.

The project will be financed with a private fund drive aimed at raising at least $200 million.

While SMU's president said his university's exclusive talks with the selection committee would resume in a few days, the other finalists are Baylor University in Waco and the University of Dallas. A decision is expected in a few months.

[DoctorDeryOne]

How could anyone ever think that Bush is a true Christian? Seriously, would someone please point me to a passage in the bible that says it's okay to lead wars of aggression that kill tens of thousands of people?

[Peterli]

How could anyone ever think that Bush is a true Christian? Seriously, would someone please point me to a passage in the bible that says it's okay to lead wars of aggression that kill tens of thousands of people?

Perhaps it is implied in the part where God drowned virtually everyone on Earth or slaughtered the sons of an entire race of people. Compared to that, Dubya's a humanitarian

[tickerinet]

How could anyone ever think that Bush is a true Christian? Seriously, would someone please point me to a passage in the bible that says it's okay to lead wars of aggression that kill tens of thousands of people?

I'm no Bible scholar, but I've heard it is right before the passage that says you should judge others as to whether they are "true" Christians.....

Matt

[infollafago]

I'm no Bible scholar, but I've heard it is right before the passage that says you should judge others as to whether they are "true" Christians.....

Thats only if you're a Christian. The rest of us can judge hypocrites all we want unless there is a similar clause in our own religion.

[DoctorDeryOne]

I'm no Bible scholar, but I've heard it is right before the passage that says you should judge others as to whether they are "true" Christians.....

Matt

So if the the 9/11 hijackers didn't follow the Muslim faith, they would be good Christians?

[AdvertisingPo]

Damn those Christians.

[botagozzz]

How could anyone ever think that Bush is a true Christian? Seriously, would someone please point me to a passage in the bible that says it's okay to lead wars of aggression that kill tens of thousands of people?

Numbers 33:53-55.
53 Take possession of the land and settle in it, for I have given you the land to possess. 54 Distribute the land by lot, according to your clans. To a larger group give a larger inheritance, and to a smaller group a smaller one. Whatever falls to them by lot will be theirs. Distribute it according to your ancestral tribes. 55 " 'But if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land, those you allow to remain will become barbs in your eyes and thorns in your sides. They will give you trouble in the land where you will live.

Also see Judges 2:1-3.

[DoctorDeryOne]

Numbers 33:53-55.
53 Take possession of the land and settle in it, for I have given you the land to possess. 54 Distribute the land by lot, according to your clans. To a larger group give a larger inheritance, and to a smaller group a smaller one. Whatever falls to them by lot will be theirs. Distribute it according to your ancestral tribes. 55 " 'But if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land, those you allow to remain will become barbs in your eyes and thorns in your sides. They will give you trouble in the land where you will live.

Also see Judges 2:1-3.

Doesn't that refer to distributing the land on which you live/in your area? I don't see how that adds up to a war of aggression, conquest and oppression.

[botagozzz]

Doesn't that refer to distributing the land on which you live/in your area? I don't see how that adds up to a war of aggression, conquest and oppression.

No, this is when God is delivering the children of Israel out of egypt and sending them into the land of the canaanites. I only gave a part of the quote, but the whole story essentially says for the Israelites to go into the land of Canaan, kill the inhabitants, and take possesion of the land from them. If they don't then the canaanites would be thorns in their sides forever. Apparently you skipped the part of my post that says: "if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land, those you allow to remain will become barbs in your eyes and thorns in your sides." Wresting control from the nation that currently controls the land instead of finding some place new sounds like an act of aggression. I love Christians who profess their belief and still have yet to take the time and read their own canon.

[DoctorDeryOne]

No, this is when God is delivering the children of Israel out of egypt and sending them into the land of the canaanites. I only gave a part of the quote, but the whole story essentially says for the Israelites to go into the land of Canaan, kill the inhabitants, and take possesion of the land from them. If they don't then the canaanites would be thorns in their sides forever. Apparently you skipped the part of my post that says: "if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land, those you allow to remain will become barbs in your eyes and thorns in your sides." Wresting control from the nation that currently controls the land instead of finding some place new sounds like an act of aggression. I love Christians who profess their belief and still have yet to take the time and read their own canon.

So in essence, Hitler's war of aggression was good (bible-wise)?

[botagozzz]

So in essence, Hitler's war of aggression was good (bible-wise)?

That's not for me to figure out. Just supplying the quote you asked for.

[jinnamys]

This is interesting; for a man who spent his Presidency reaching out to the religious right, the Methodists are trying to stop the George W Bush presidential library being built anywhere near an association with their name, stating "...Methodists have a long history of social conscience, so questions about the conduct of this president are very concerning". It would seem that as time passes Bush's once indelible hold to "power" is being further eroded, as first the Party started to look elsewhere, and now his "base" is also.

Ministers launch petition to stop Bush library - CNN.com

It is a group of ministers and faculty opposing the war memorial primarily with some other opposing the President directly, but it is not the whole church. If they want to petition, that is their prerogative; however, I still believe, for better or for worse, the library will go up.

Personally, I disagree with the war memorial at the Library, but I won't sign the petition. Second, those that argue it will be a terrorist target still have a lot to learn about terrorists and how those types of organizations operate.

[jinnamys]

How could anyone ever think that Bush is a true Christian? Seriously, would someone please point me to a passage in the bible that says it's okay to lead wars of aggression that kill tens of thousands of people?

A Christian is simply one who has accepted Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior. It is not based on what types of acts, or lack thereof that can make who a Christian is or is not.

[Susanleech]

How could anyone ever think that Bush is a true Christian? Seriously, would someone please point me to a passage in the bible that says it's okay to lead wars of aggression that kill tens of thousands of people?

Nobody is a true Christian. A true Christian is perfect and puts Christ before anything. At last check, there was only one man who achieved that---Christ.

And I would like to see the passage that says that government leaders cannot use their elected power of force.

[AdvertisingPo]

Nobody is a true Christian. A true Christian is perfect and puts Christ before anything. At last check, there was only one man who achieved that---Christ.

And I would like to see the passage that says that government leaders cannot use their elected power of force.

I would dispute your definition.

[DoctorDeryOne]

Nobody is a true Christian. A true Christian is perfect and puts Christ before anything. At last check, there was only one man who achieved that---Christ.

And I would like to see the passage that says that government leaders cannot use their elected power of force.

True, you might have a point. But don't you think it is a little odd that Christians are supporting someone who started a war and caused the deaths of tens of thousands? I know that how Christian you are is more or less a scale, with no definitive lines, but this guy is about as Christian your average serial killer and rapist.