[panholio]

I'll actually give some of my employees a raise. I may raise prices on a few items but not a lot and not on everything

I pay my office manager a straight salary plus bonuses based on production. Of course he's not helping the agency produce what it should so I'm not sure how much longer I'm going to give him. I like to give every employee I hire at least 2 months to show what they can do. After 3 months they get a raise. Anything after that is commission based. In fact last year I was forced to fire my telemarketers because of the no call list. They were both cute little high school girls with sweet voices. I was paying them 7$ an hour from 4-7pm and a 5$ bonus on every policy written from their calls.

Production pays...not waiting for the govn to give you a handout.

Varus

[Asianunta]

It isn't really a matter of how profitable the business is, but rather how much the labor is worth. To use a facile example, if you have a guy at your restaurant that cleans the bathrooms once per day, and you pay him $7.00 per hour, you might be happy with that. Now, if another guy walks in and wants to do that job as well and earn $7.00 per hour, you would have no use for him. You probably couldn't use him for minimum wage, either. But, if the guy said he'd work for a nickel per hour (and you put aside any moral reservations about paying that amount), you'd probably say "sure, what the hell, grab a mop."

First of all it doesn't answer my question. I really want to know what job is so unprofitable that it can't afford to pay more. The argument I usually get is that it would hurt small business because they can't afford it. I really want to know. I'm not fishing for anything.

[Peterli]

First of all it doesn't answer my question. I really want to know what job is so unprofitable that it can't afford to pay more. The argument I usually get is that it would hurt small business because they can't afford it. I really want to know. I'm not fishing for anything.

I'm not sure what you mean by a job being "profitable". Do you mean what job doesn't deserve at least $5.15?

If that's the question, my honest answer is that it is completely dependent on the company. When hiring, there is a "yes/no" decision and a "how much" decision that occur in sequence. Now, a lot of companies might say "yes, but not for more than $6 per hour" which might ultimately be a "no". So, the "hurt" comes not from underpaying, but from simply doing without the labor, which effectively removes a job from the market.

Of course, if you already have employees that are earning a set wage, you might not fire them, but you also might not hire more as quickly as you would have. With a certain amount of employees working for you, you always have the option of getting more "productivity" out of your current employees as opposed to hiring new ones.

[enentique]

I really want to know what job is so unprofitable that it can't afford to pay more.

Paying someone at a gas station to check the customers' oil and water, wash their windshields, and put air in the tires, is so unprofitable. The stations don't pull enough additional business for having those services available, to justify paying the wages they would get. That's why the job doesn't exist any more, and hasn't for years. The only places you find those services any mor, are where it costs $5 more to fill your tank every time... and how many people do you see using those "full service" pumps?

The only way the station owner could afford to pay those workers, is to increase his prices substantially. And they found through hard experience that people would go to the other station down the street that had niether the services nor the high prices.

Raising the minimum wage destroys low-wage jobs, by making the marginal-increase-of-business ones completely unprofitable and forcing employers to eliminate them.

Simple economics, known to all but socialists.

[OQmYckYz]

First of all it doesn't answer my question. I really want to know what job is so unprofitable that it can't afford to pay more. The argument I usually get is that it would hurt small business because they can't afford it. I really want to know. I'm not fishing for anything.

It has little to do with profit and more to do with experienced employees or the type of work.

High schooler with no experience, should he earn $15.00 an hour to scoop ice cream?

Remember that even though the employee gets paid $5.00 an hour, it costs more than that to have him. There is insurance, the HR and payroll person that has to write his check and so on.

Someone made a comment about people learning and moving on, does not get rid of minimum wage jobs. You're right and it shouldn't. min wage jobs are needed for people that just enter the work force, to gain experience.

[DoctorIrokezov]

I really want to know what job is so unprofitable that it can't afford to pay more. The argument I usually get is that it would hurt small business because they can't afford it. Mostly startups, businesses dealing with the upfront costs of infrastructure, low income without an established client base, and additional costs of advertising to develop that client base.

My parents have an accounting firm. I worked at less than minimum for them for years - a Classic case of somebody starting out at the Very bottom of the employment ladder and getting some experience only because it was possible to pay me what I was worth instead of what was dictated. (Fyi - Family members are explicitly excluded from minimum wage laws.) Sure, they make decent money now and I'm sure they pay everyone well above minimum as well, but it wasn't always that way.

And I not only don't resent being 'taken advantage of', I'm grateful for it. My early work experience (and borderline poverty experience) gave me a better appreciation and understanding of how businesses work and a definite leg up in my first few job searches. If anything, I'm disappointed that my kids probably won't get to have a lot of the experiences that have made me well rounded.

[Peterli]

Actually, that reminds me of a gig I took when I was starting out as a programmer. I wrote php scripts for a guy who did freelance web development, and my only compensation was that he paid for my broadband. This wasn't while I was in school - it was after I had graduated and was living on my own (I also did other freelancing at the time for very little money). While I made nothing, I spent several months getting good experience - I don't begrudge him a bit. He told me upfront that he couldn't pay me, and I accepted the terms for the experience.

[OQmYckYz]

Mostly startups, businesses dealing with the upfront costs of infrastructure, low income without an established client base, and additional costs of advertising to develop that client base.

My parents have an accounting firm. I worked at less than minimum for them for years - a Classic case of somebody starting out at the Very bottom of the employment ladder and getting some experience only because it was possible to pay me what I was worth instead of what was dictated. (Fyi - minimum wage doesn't apply to family.) Sure, they make decent money now and I'm sure they pay everyone well above minimum as well, but it wasn't always that way.

And I not only don't resent being 'taken advantage of', I'm grateful for it. My early work experience (and borderline poverty experience) gave me a better appreciation and understanding of how businesses work and a definite leg up in my first few job searches. If anything, I'm disappointed that my kids probably won't get to have a lot of the experiences that have made me well rounded.

Great story. My friend started a company and for the first year he, the owner, made less than minimum wage. All because he had to pay his employees minimum wage.

[MaickiP]

What a bunch of stupid arguments against minimum wage increase. Minimum wage increase creates buying power and buying power creates jobs. It has always worked as intended. There's nothing complicated about this.

Keep in mind...

The richest 2 percent of adults in the world own more than half the world's wealth, according to a new study released by the Helsinki-based World Institute for Development Economics Research of the United Nations University. OneWorld U.S. Home / Today's News - Richest 2 Percent Own Half the World's Wealth

Consolidating wealth into a few hands is what creates economic pitfalls because buying power is reserved for the few and demand to supply the 'haves' means loss of business because the 'have-nots' can't create enough buying power to create new jobs.

As the article also points out, we are living in a world of absurd misproportion when we speak of wealth. To assume upping the minimum wage would hurt an economy that is already tilted at the scales is unfounded.

And yes, people do live on minimum wage, I was one of them when I was working in the plastics factory in El Paso. Minimum wage is real and people do have to live off of it.

But to be honest, there is nothing more to discuss. What is done is done and it will prove to be beneficial in the short term and long term of things just as it always has.

[Peterli]

Minimum wage increase creates buying power and buying power creates jobs. It has always worked as intended. There's nothing complicated about this.

As long as we're dealing with oversimplifications in a vacuum, do you have a problem with the GOP wanting to lower taxes across the board to "create buying power"? After all, if putting more dollars in people's hands creates jobs, what's the difference?

Could it be, perhaps, that "creating buying power" while simultaneously making things more expensive, is a net wash?

[MaickiP]

As long as we're dealing with oversimplifications in a vacuum, do you have a problem with the GOP wanting to lower taxes across the board to "create buying power"? After all, if putting more dollars in people's hands creates jobs, what's the difference?

Could it be, perhaps, that "creating buying power" while simultaneously making things more expensive, is a net wash?

Yes I have a problem with that. The GOP had the opporitunity to lower taxes across the board to create buying power, but they didn't.

You need to ask them why they didn't and stop asking if they should.

[Asianunta]

Paying someone at a gas station to check the customers' oil and water, wash their windshields, and put air in the tires, is so unprofitable. The stations don't pull enough additional business for having those services available, to justify paying the wages they would get. That's why the job doesn't exist any more, and hasn't for years. The only places you find those services any mor, are where it costs $5 more to fill your tank every time... and how many people do you see using those "full service" pumps?

The only way the station owner could afford to pay those workers, is to increase his prices substantially. And they found through hard experience that people would go to the other station down the street that had niether the services nor the high prices.

Raising the minimum wage destroys low-wage jobs, by making the marginal-increase-of-business ones completely unprofitable and forcing employers to eliminate them.

Simple economics, known to all but socialists.

You are the only person that addressed what I was asking. Thanks you. Anyway, how do gas station owners know that more people don't go to their stations over others because of the added service which does add profits to pay them at least $5.15? I guess that is something that can't be measured exactly.

[enentique]

You are the only person that addressed what I was asking. Thanks you. Anyway, how do gas station owners know that more people don't go to their stations over others because of the added service which does add profits to pay them at least $5.15? I guess that is something that can't be measured exactly.

Many station owners keep close track of how much business they get, how much their neighboring stations get, what each one's prices are, etc. It's their livelihood, they have a great interest in finding out how to maximize their profit.

They work out the numbers on how much their business changes for each penny per gallon they differ from their neighboring stations. How much difference does a one or two cent increase make, how much does a ten-cent increase make, etc. They base it mostly on the history of their area. With prices changing daily, they can accumulate a lot of data over the years.

They would love to make more profit by hiring people to wash windshields, check oil etc. Unfortunately, the numbers just don't work out. When they offer the service and charge what they need to, enough people stay away that they wind up losing money.

Contrary to what our brethern of the southpaw persuasion try to tell us, the owners don't have money trees on their property, and they CAN'T increase their employees' wages without passing the costs on to the paying customers. And the paying customers often say, "No deal."

It's their customers who tell them how much the new workers' services are worth. And the owners listen very carefully - their bottom line is at stake.

[DoctorDeryOne]

Minimum wage is still not enough. Business are lucky they don't have to pay more than they will be. There are states out there who pay below federal minimum wage, you know.

If it's not enough, then why are people working the jobs?

[Sironimoll]

If it's not enough, then why are people working the jobs? Because they are caught between a rock and a hard place. The Republicans tell people that they can't be on welfare unless they get a job. Then when they get a job they no longer qualify for welfare. But if the job is minimum wage then they can't afford to live. So they quit the job so they can qualify for welfare again, at which point they then have to start looking for another minimum wage job. People work these jobs but no one STAYS at these jobs its a constantly transitory kind of work, the employers know it and like it that way, thats why they pay so little.

[Itrtuawh]

Less then a generation ago, McBurgerbell workers averaged 16 years old…

My view is that if there is to be a minimum wage, it should be a starter wage for teens entering the workforce who live with there parents. A living wage is not now or has ever been a McNugget counter. It takes about 200 hours of vocational school to become certified in wielding, plumbing, auto/auto body- repair, home/industrial electricity ect were you’ll make about $20.oo an hour…
If your all grown up, take up wielding…
The public schools are pulling something in the “everyone must go to college” thing. Not everyone was meant to and more then half drop out…

[panholio]

What a bunch of stupid arguments against minimum wage increase. Minimum wage increase creates buying power and buying power creates jobs. It has always worked as intended. There's nothing complicated about this.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about it's obvious you've never employeed anyone.

Consolidating wealth into a few hands is what creates economic pitfalls because buying power is reserved for the few and demand to supply the 'haves' means loss of business because the 'have-nots' can't create enough buying power to create new jobs. Complete b*llsh*t; McDonalds has created more millionaires than any other company in the history of the world. Do you know where most of those millionaires start out at? Cleaning the floors, flipping burgers, and serving customers.

As the article also points out, we are living in a world of absurd misproportion when we speak of wealth. To assume upping the minimum wage would hurt an economy that is already tilted at the scales is unfounded. Again you have no idea what you're talking about. You're speaking from ignorance and it shows clearly.

And yes, people do live on minimum wage, I was one of them when I was working in the plastics factory in El Paso. Minimum wage is real and people do have to live off of it. Not for long they don't. And if you're on min wage you qualify for food stamps so you don't have to pay for your food.

But to be honest, there is nothing more to discuss. What is done is done and it will prove to be beneficial in the short term and long term of things just as it always has. What's done is done and will cause employers like myself from hiring more people. I'm not going to pay someone over 7$ and hour to make a few calls and take a few payments. I'd rather just do it myself and use the money in other places.

Varus

[MzTT]

Yes I have a problem with that. The GOP had the opporitunity to lower taxes across the board to create buying power, but they didn't.

You need to ask them why they didn't and stop asking if they should.

Your answer has nothing to do with the question.

Here's another one for you: If increasing the minimum wage only increases buying power, with no ill effects, why not simply raise it to 10.00 per hour, or 100.00 per hour?

[Sironimoll]

It takes about 200 hours of vocational school to become certified in wielding, plumbing, auto/auto body- repair, home/industrial electricity ect were you’ll make about $20.oo an hour…
If your all grown up, take up wielding…
The public schools are pulling something in the “everyone must go to college” thing. Not everyone was meant to and more then half drop ou Yeah there was a time in America where you could get vocational training work in a factory producing goods and make enough for your family. Welding, construction, electricians these are the leftover jobs from when America was an industrial power. However thanks to the "free market" people out there who all decided that they didn't want to pay living wages to Americans, those jobs are now overseas. It's NOT a coincidence that the fall of the industrial union happens at the exact rate that college becomes increasingly the only option for people who don't want to scrape by for a living. There are exceptions of course but they are VERY rare and auto repair, Im sorry, there aren't enough jobs for that.

[MzTT]

Yeah there was a time in America where you could get vocational training work in a factory producing goods and make enough for your family. Welding, construction, electricians these are the leftover jobs from when America was an industrial power. However thanks to the "free market" people out there who all decided that they didn't want to pay living wages to Americans, those jobs are now overseas. It's NOT a coincidence that the fall of the industrial union happens at the exact rate that college becomes increasingly the only option for people who don't want to scrape by for a living. There are exceptions of course but they are VERY rare and auto repair, Im sorry, there aren't enough jobs for that.

You can still get vocational training and can still work in a wide variety of fields without a degree. Additionally, there is nothing stopping someone from starting their own business.

Do you realize most of the nation does not have a degree or work in degree-required fields?