[ddwayspd]

I'll be the dissenter.

What the parents are doing is not harmless. Their daughter can't communicate pain and fear or desire. They are subjecting her to surgery and hormone therapy which cause physical pain and emotional changes, expose her to needless risk of infection and anesthesia accidents... for their convenience in her prolonged care.

Mrs. M proposes the justification that the parents would necessarily have to commit their daughter for care if she were allowed to grow up. That's not true, it is more convenient for the care giver...not a necessity.

I don't pass judgement on institutionalizing someone like this. It is a horrible choice. I was on the fence about Terry Schaivo and I'm on the fence about abortion.

But I do judge this case as a deception and one that is no less offensive than abortion - perhaps even moreso. This is not a fetus, it is a living, breathing, feeling, functioning girl who is being subjected to the equivalent of medical experimentation and robbed of one of the few things that provide stimulation - her own physical changes.

Thinking about it another way, what if your darling 3 month old baby were permanently stunted in ALL growth, cute forever - would you subject them to unnecessary surgery for ANY reason? Would you give them drugs that did nothing for THEM but helped you cope?

What's happened to this family is sad but isn't that part of life too? Like this strange affliction - isn't it part of life?

[annouhMus]

JHC;884268]I'll be the dissenter. RESPONJSE, then I will be the de-dissenter

What the parents are doing is not harmless. Their daughter can't communicate pain and fear or desire. They are subjecting her to surgery and hormone therapy which cause physical pain
RESPONSE There are other "natural thing which can also couse pain which she would not be able to communicate. Another party on TV was relating the problems of her equally disabled dauchter who was experiencing menstral cramping, etc. and there is (or was)a reasonable possiblity of breast cancer due to prevelance in her family.




But I do judge this case as a deception and one that is no less offensive than abortion - perhaps even moreso. This is not a fetus, it is a living, breathing, feeling, functioning girl who is being subjected to the equivalent of medical experimentation and robbed of one of the few things that provide stimulation - her own physical changes.
RESPONSE I don't see how this can be considered experimaentatio. To me it is reasonable Preventative "TREATMENT"

Thinking about it another way, what if your darling 3 month old baby were permanently stunted in ALL growth, cute forever - would you subject them to unnecessary surgery for ANY reason? Would you give them drugs that did nothing for THEM but helped you cope? RESPONSE Apples and oranges I think they ARE doing something for her.

[Usogwdkb]

I'll be the dissenter.

What the parents are doing is not harmless. Their daughter can't communicate pain and fear or desire. They are subjecting her to surgery and hormone therapy which cause physical pain and emotional changes, expose her to needless risk of infection and anesthesia accidents... for their convenience in her prolonged care.

Mrs. M proposes the justification that the parents would necessarily have to commit their daughter for care if she were allowed to grow up. That's not true, it is more convenient for the care giver...not a necessity.

I don't pass judgement on institutionalizing someone like this. It is a horrible choice. I was on the fence about Terry Schaivo and I'm on the fence about abortion.

But I do judge this case as a deception and one that is no less offensive than abortion - perhaps even moreso. This is not a fetus, it is a living, breathing, feeling, functioning girl who is being subjected to the equivalent of medical experimentation and robbed of one of the few things that provide stimulation - her own physical changes.

Thinking about it another way, what if your darling 3 month old baby were permanently stunted in ALL growth, cute forever - would you subject them to unnecessary surgery for ANY reason? Would you give them drugs that did nothing for THEM but helped you cope?

What's happened to this family is sad but isn't that part of life too? Like this strange affliction - isn't it part of life?

The child evidently communicates pain, fear and desire the way any three month old child does, by crying. While she is a living and breathing girl, she's not cognitive enough to have many feelings beyond hunger, pain and contentment. As for functioning, yes, her body functions but to what degree? She can't walk, talk or even think at the age of 9!
I don't know how many of you have ever taken care of an adult invalid but I know from experience, it's not an easy thing. Women are exceptionally difficult due to menstrual cycles and often end up, for a lack of a better word, smelly. They develop yeast infections easily (vaginal and under the breast) because they tend to have to take antibiotics more often.
You speak of the hormone therapy causing physical and emotional changes but without the therapy, her natural hormones would do the same thing.
Yes, it's more convenient for the family if this child stays child-sized, but it also provides her with a better quality of life, IMO, because she can actually receive better care and doesn't have to go through all the crap that women go through each month.

BTW, I didn't say that this child would definitely end up in an institution but that it often happens as they get older.

[fabrizioitwloch]

Is that wishful thinking on your part? or what you think the rest of us wish?????

Don't worry, chances are you'll bet me to the grave.

[annouhMus]

Don't worry, chances are you'll bet me to the grave.

You mean there's a poker table there??????? (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

[annouhMus]

(Sorry, I couldn't resist.) Some Typos are funny.

[ddwayspd]

The child evidently communicates pain, fear and desire the way any three month old child does, by crying. While she is a living and breathing girl, she's not cognitive enough to have many feelings beyond hunger, pain and contentment. As for functioning, yes, her body functions but to what degree? She can't walk, talk or even think at the age of 9!
I don't know how many of you have ever taken care of an adult invalid but I know from experience, it's not an easy thing. Women are exceptionally difficult due to menstrual cycles and often end up, for a lack of a better word, smelly. They develop yeast infections easily (vaginal and under the breast) because they tend to have to take antibiotics more often.
You speak of the hormone therapy causing physical and emotional changes but without the therapy, her natural hormones would do the same thing.
Yes, it's more convenient for the family if this child stays child-sized, but it also provides her with a better quality of life, IMO, because she can actually receive better care and doesn't have to go through all the crap that women go through each month.

I understand.

It is simply my personal feeling - just like my feelings about abortion. That intuition, if you will, comes from personal experience in both cases. I sense what is right. I sense that life is right in all its pain and joy.
I don't discount a fetus or the woman who decides on abortion. They are equal. And I don't discount the mentally retarded or physically impaired.

This is no kind of argument but it's another aspect to consider.

BTW, I didn't say that this child would definitely end up in an institution but that it often happens as they get older.

I must agree with Doniston here. For all the reasons the parents gave, I believe they made a smart, though admittedly, controversial decision. All too often, these children mature physically and parents find they can no long care for them. Then must then be placed in a long-term care facility where they are often subjected to rape and molestation. With the hormone therapy, Ashley will remain small enough for her parents to manage which will help eliminate the need for a professional facility.
However, I'm wouldn't want this treatment for every mentally retarded case because clearly, some can become functional adults.

emphasis mine
You actually did say "must" and you did say "they can no long[er] care for them". This is important. Maybe you didn't mean to but that's the hypocrisy I'm trying to show you. It's a cop-out. It's the same cop-out the parents use for themselves because they aren't sure it was the right thing to do either. It was simply more convenient.

The threat of rape and molestation is thrown in to strengthen the case but it does not. In fact, in does the opposite. If the parents were so concerned, would they be so willing to submit their 9 year old/3 month old daughter to extreme hormone therapy and a hystorectomy which is not medically necessary?

The day I can't take care of my children is the day I can't take care of myself. At that point, having put them through any hormone therapy and surgery would be moot.

This point is inarguable. It is a matter of convenience for the parents. Fine. I understand. My cousin went straight to a nursing home when her mother died. Her sister was simply not willing to give her own life for her sisters and she is a consideration too.

You go on to talk about yeast infections etc... thats quite a bargain! Here are some well documented risks and side affect of estrogen therapy at even LOW doses (this kid has massive doses for a couple of years):
blood clotting
liver damage, tumors and liver cancer
kidney cancer and tumors
high blood pressure
glucose intolerance
nausea and vomitting
severe cramps
diahrrea
jaundice
migrain headaches
dizziness
severe depression and mood swings
incontenance
leg pain
chest pain
difficulty breathing
hair loss (on your head)
and indeed...prior to her hystorectomy, increased yeast infections would have been probable.

Not pretty.

Here's the killer in this argument: if the girl dies tomorrow her parents tortured her for nothing. If she lives to be 100 it is at the mercy of her parents. They are indeed, afraid she will live forever.

[Usogwdkb]

I understand.

It is simply my personal feeling - just like my feelings about abortion. That intuition, if you will, comes from personal experience in both cases. I sense what is right. I sense that life is right in all its pain and joy.
I don't discount a fetus or the woman who decides on abortion. They are equal. And I don't discount the mentally retarded or physically impaired.

This is no kind of argument but it's another aspect to consider.




emphasis mine
You actually did say "must" and you did say "they can no long[er] care for them". This is important. Maybe you didn't mean to but that's the hypocrisy I'm trying to show you. It's a cop-out. It's the same cop-out the parents use for themselves because they aren't sure it was the right thing to do either. It was simply more convenient.

The threat of rape and molestation is thrown in to strengthen the case but it does not. In fact, in does the opposite. If the parents were so concerned, would they be so willing to submit their 9 year old/3 month old daughter to extreme hormone therapy and a hystorectomy which is not medically necessary?

The day I can't take care of my children is the day I can't take care of myself. At that point, having put them through any hormone therapy and surgery would be moot.

This point is inarguable. It is a matter of convenience for the parents. Fine. I understand. My cousin went straight to a nursing home when her mother died. Her sister was simply not willing to give her own life for her sisters and she is a consideration too.

You go on to talk about yeast infections etc... thats quite a bargain! Here are some well documented risks and side affect of estrogen therapy at even LOW doses (this kid has massive doses for a couple of years):
blood clotting
liver damage, tumors and liver cancer
kidney cancer and tumors
high blood pressure
glucose intolerance
nausea and vomitting
severe cramps
diahrrea
jaundice
migrain headaches
dizziness
severe depression and mood swings
incontenance
leg pain
chest pain
difficulty breathing
hair loss (on your head)
and indeed...prior to her hystorectomy, increased yeast infections would have been probable.

Not pretty.

Here's the killer in this argument: if the girl dies tomorrow her parents tortured her for nothing. If she lives to be 100 it is at the mercy of her parents. They are indeed, afraid she will live forever.

I don't have but a second here but I wanted to correct this. The quote was:

All too often, these children mature physically and parents find they can no long care for them. Then must then be placed in a long-term care facility where they are often subjected to rape and molestation.

[Nurse_sero]

It's really sad but the parents have made a rational decision. I don't envy them. But it's a sound decision.

[RilmAlime67]

For all the parents out there, what would you do? Can you imagine your 20 year old son or daughter acting like an infant?

My wife and I have been head butted countless times by our kids when they were infants, and it freaking hurts. Can you imagine getting head butted by a 20 year old?

An adult body with an infant brain can be a physical danger to themselves and those around them.

Think about an infant tantrum in an adult body, that wouldn't be pretty, and probably would require physical restraints and a padded room.

I am thankful that I have been blessed with healthy children, and don't envy those of us burdened with the decisions that disabled children bring to bare.

[fabrizioitwloch]

You mean there's a poker table there??????? (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

That was a good one.

[fabrizioitwloch]

For all the parents out there, what would you do? Can you imagine your 20 year old son or daughter acting like an infant?

I can't imagine and my heart goes out to those who have to deal and/or make decissions such as this case.

[Nikkytas]

Unfortunately it's a no win situation. They were only doing what would make it just a little easier for them in caring for her. My heart goes out to them.