[Ngdyoysv]

So how is it that schools functioned before all of this federal interference? You know the Dept of Education wasn't created until the Carter administration, right? Strangely, Americans overall were getting a better education before its creation than they are now.

Well we had segregation for alot of it. But even after they didn't have near the costs as they do today. Computers just to name one. Then you have all the extra curricular activities which are key to getting students involved with the school and thus with learning (at least that's what happens if it's handled correctly in a no pass no play sort of manner that's honest) and especially to getting them to college. I'm not just talking about scholarships either. A kid with no extracurricular activities to his/her name even with great grades is going to have trouble competing for a spot at a good university because they are not considered "well rounded". With the costs run up by today's schools, many of which are legitimate aids to learning and also teach a necessary skill (like computers, or wood shop, auto shop, theatre, band, art class, Future problem solvers, not to mention things like graphing calculators, even sports programs etc etc) along with a pretty decent size increase in number of schools and population especially in the inner city most of which are fairly poor especially for the way schools raise money in tx, that is to say by property taxes which are part of property values by district. inner city schools have low property values all around and thus significantly less money.

I'm not supporting no child left behind. I took the TAAS test and the TAKS test when they switched to that and they are so easy an monkey could pass it. But remember parents were also alot more involved in their kids lives back in the day as well. What we've got now is parents who are falling down on the job, ensuring their child is paying attention and getting help if they need it etc and not just fucking off for 7 hours a day.
Hell, my sister in law is a teacher in a dallas suburb. pretty nice school. she's a special ed certified teacher. she deals with the "life skills '' kids. Those that literally need to be taught "no johnny don't punch yourself in the face all the time" or have cerebral palsy or any of numerous forms of autism etc etc. Those kids had to take the TAKS test. Even a little girl with cerebral palsy so bad she can barely move her head. she's pretty much unresponsive and my sister in law had to find some way to get her to take the test as ordered by her superiors. It's ridiculous I know and agree. But that federal money is quite important for alot of schools to stay open and alot of teachers to have jobs. Which helps the economy. Hell in Wimberley, TX a town next to San Marcos, they have ZERO industry. The school district is the largest employer. It starts laying off teachers that town dies.
What we really need is a system that actually works, not this no child left behind bullshit that doesn't.

[Ngdyoysv]

Sounds great except the fact that if they need us to teach our kids math history and reading then what am I paying the teacher for? It is bad enough I have to correct what the teacher teaches to my kids.

Out of curiosity, what kinds of mistakes have you had to correct?

[Ngdyoysv]

Bullshit. They can keep thier doors open they would just have to cut the fat

and what exactly is fat to you? I'm telling you dude inner city schools have no chance of turning out kids that can in any way be competitive with kids from richer school districts, and keep in mind here I'm only talking about being competitive in terms of getting accepted, not paying for it, without that money. They just don't have the money for it on their own since it's raised from property taxes which are by property value, which is quite low in the inner city. They need extracurriculars just as much as a rich school does. They deserve computers to aid learning and research as well as to learn necessary typing skills etc. Extracurriculars also help keep kids out of gangs. That's a damn good thing in my opinion.
What we need is simply a better system.

[Yinekol]

and what exactly is fat to you? I'm telling you dude inner city schools have no chance of turning out kids that can in any way be competitive with kids from richer school districts, and keep in mind here I'm only talking about being competitive in terms of getting accepted, not paying for it, without that money. They just don't have the money for it on their oywn since it's raised from property taxes which are by property value, which is quite low in the inner city. They need extracurriculars just as much as a rich school does. They deserve computers to aid learning and research as well as to learn necessary typing skills etc. Extracurriculars also help keep kids out of gangs. That's a damn good thing in my opinion.
What we need is simply a better system.

Did you just say inner city school wouldn't have the money? What happened to the millions in property tax and lottery?

[Ngdyoysv]

Did you just say inner city school wouldn't have the money? What happened to the millions in property tax and lottery?

Did you not read my posts? The inner city (ghettos) have low property values. Not only that but it's all split into multiple districts and schools. The lottery funds ALL SCHOOLS in TEXAS not just one or two genius. It doesn't stretch that far. Inner city schools would have some money (not much, certainly not enough to operate at the level they need to) but suburban schools would have exceedingly more since property values are higher in the suburbs. This is not a great idea.

[Yinekol]

Did you not read my posts? The inner city (ghettos) have low property values. Not only that but it's all split into multiple districts and schools. The lottery funds ALL SCHOOLS in TEXAS not just one or two genius. It doesn't stretch that far. Inner city schools would have some money (not much, certainly not enough to operate at the level they need to) but suburban schools would have exceedingly more since property values are higher in the suburbs. This is not a great idea.

Actually it would be easy to keep them open. Keep the board from spending all the money on vacations, mistresses, hookers and drugs. Oh and make teachers pay into their healthcare and make them get a 401 k and dump the retirement plans they have now. not to mentions hundreds of things that can be cut to save money. Like football.

[Ngdyoysv]

Actually it would be easy to keep them open. Keep the board from spending all the money on vacations, mistresses, hookers and drugs. Oh and make teachers pay into their healthcare and make them get a 401 k and dump the retirement plans they have now. not to mentions hundreds of things that can be cut to save money. Like football.

Got any proof that the boards are spending the school budgets on vacations mistresses hookers and drugs?
Good luck getting those kids to college without extracurricular activities.

[himecthekWiff]

and what exactly is fat to you? I'm telling you dude inner city schools have no chance of turning out kids that can in any way be competitive with kids from richer school districts, and keep in mind here I'm only talking about being competitive in terms of getting accepted, not paying for it, without that money. They just don't have the money for it on their own since it's raised from property taxes which are by property value, which is quite low in the inner city. They need extracurriculars just as much as a rich school does. They deserve computers to aid learning and research as well as to learn necessary typing skills etc. Extracurriculars also help keep kids out of gangs. That's a damn good thing in my opinion.
What we need is simply a better system.

Public schooling is mostly useless in creating usable job skills. They teach way too much bullshit, most of which will be forgotten. I learned the vast majority of what I know about computers on my own. Besides, computers are dirt-cheap these days. An under-$400 laptop can last for the period of the high school years easily. Are you telling me their parents can't cough up $400 in a four-year period? Only thing that's left is keeping kids out of gangs, and that's questionable. At best public schooling is daycare for extra stupid teens who might learn a thing or two while they're there. People who can control themselves and aren't stupid don't really need it except for the diploma which is really pointless except in the sense that some people might think a kid is stupid because he doesn't have one. Once you have one, nobody gives a shit.

[Ngdyoysv]

Public schooling is mostly useless in creating usable job skills. They teach way too much bullshit, most of which will be forgotten. I learned the vast majority of what I know about computers on my own. Besides, computers are dirt-cheap these days. An under-$400 laptop can last for the period of the high school years easily. Are you telling me their parents can't cough up $400 in a four-year period? Only thing that's left is keeping kids out of gangs, and that's questionable. At best public schooling is daycare for extra stupid teens who might learn a thing or two while they're there. People who can control themselves and aren't stupid don't really need it except for the diploma which is really pointless except in the sense that some people might think a kid is stupid because he doesn't have one. Once you have one, nobody gives a shit.

some skills are social and disciplinary in nature. Computers are pretty expensive. Getting decent computers is even more expensive. And I trust public schools to properly educate kids more than I trust the average home schooler.

[Soassesaisp]

Discipline, discipline, the lack of it is the single largest factor in our Public School's decline. Intergration came in and discipline went out. In the South, if a white teacher tried to discipline a black student the teacher was either beat to a pulp by racist blacks or accused of racism and fired. As a result, discipline left the schools and the students took over. In the remaining predominately white schools discipline remained and the students excelled while the more intergrated schools went to hell. I saw it, I lived through the sorry excuse of intergration. No amount of money will fix that, it's not a money problem. Oh, it's not an intergration problem either, it's a Black Racist problem.

[Soassesaisp]

Discipline, discipline, the lack of it is the single largest factor in our Public School's decline. Intergration came in and discipline went out. In the South, if a white teacher tried to discipline a black student the teacher was either beat to a pulp by racist blacks or accused of racism and fired. As a result, discipline left the schools and the students took over. In the remaining predominately white schools discipline remained and the students excelled while the more intergrated schools went to hell. I saw it, I lived through the sorry excuse of intergration. No amount of money will fix that, it's not a money problem. Oh, it's not an intergration problem either, it's a Black Racist problem.

And what does this have to do with today, you may ask? Well the problem was never fixed. Blame was put elsewhere, anywhere other than Black Racism, that was and still is poison. As a result, black and white kids suffer.

Atlanta is just an example of the low place our education system has sunk to. The problem goes back to the 60's and 70's.

[Yinekol]

Got any proof that the boards are spending the school budgets on vacations mistresses hookers and drugs?
Good luck getting those kids to college without extracurricular activities.

Go look up Detroit school board scandals...Pick a year....Then do the same for NY, Chicago, LA, and any other city....Actually you will find them mostly in heavy liberal cities.

[Ngdyoysv]

Discipline, discipline, the lack of it is the single largest factor in our Public School's decline. Intergration came in and discipline went out. In the South, if a white teacher tried to discipline a black student the teacher was either beat to a pulp by racist blacks or accused of racism and fired. As a result, discipline left the schools and the students took over. In the remaining predominately white schools discipline remained and the students excelled while the more intergrated schools went to hell. I saw it, I lived through the sorry excuse of intergration. No amount of money will fix that, it's not a money problem. Oh, it's not an intergration problem either, it's a Black Racist problem.

someone has a chip on their shoulder. Plenty of teachers (of all ethnicities) punished plenty of students (of all ethnicities) when I went to public school in the 90's and 00's. Some of these teachers had been teaching since integration. At the same school. Never got a cross word from anyone for telling some wanna be gangsta to "PULL HIS FUCKING PANTS UP NOW DAMMIT!".
It has more to do with inner city v suburb than black v white, even though inner city schools have a more predominately ethnic pop and suburbs are predominately white. The issue is money, not race. Ethnic people are not somehow less intelligent or capable of discipline etc. It's that they're poor and that causes a plethora of other problems to pop up. (ethnic centered gangs for one which shifts the culture). There is nothing wrong with integration.

[Ngdyoysv]

Go look up Detroit school board scandals...Pick a year....Then do the same for NY, Chicago, LA, and any other city....Actually you will find them mostly in heavy liberal cities.

Thanatos don't be lazy. When I make claims I link them. You should do the same. You made the claim, you provide the link.

[Yinekol]

Thanatos don't be lazy. When I make claims I link them. You should do the same. You made the claim, you provide the link.

I was trying to prove something.

[Ngdyoysv]

I was trying to prove something.

And you still can! Just pop up those links and I'll take a look at them.

[BlackBird]

Sounds great except the fact that if they need us to teach our kids math history and reading then what am I paying the teacher for? It is bad enough I have to correct what the teacher teaches to my kids.

Education begins at the home. The fact that you and so many others have dumped that responsibility off onto someone else is the bulk of the problems we face in the public education system.

And I didn't say you had to correct everything the teacher does. I said you need to be involved in your kid's education. If you don't think that as a parent you bare responsibility in how your child is educated then you are solely to blame if they grow up to be an uneducated failure.

[Yinekol]

Education begins at the home. The fact that you and so many others have dumped that responsibility off onto someone else is the bulk of the problems we face in the public education system.

And I didn't say you had to correct everything the teacher does. I said you need to be involved in your kid's education. If you don't think that as a parent you bare responsibility in how your child is educated then you are solely to blame if they grow up to be an uneducated failure.

First of you dont dump the problem of educating your children to an educator...Thats there job. It is what they are paid for. I teach my children morals and how to be good people. They teach them reading math and history. Now you are saying teachers are not responsible for their own job performance?

[BlackBird]

Got any proof that the boards are spending the school budgets on vacations mistresses hookers and drugs?
Good luck getting those kids to college without extracurricular activities.

You don't need extracurricular activities to get in to college. That's a load of shit. You don't know what you're talking about. I have a Master's Degree and I never did any extracurricular activities in high school. I worked a job after school.

[BlackBird]

First of you dont dump the problem of educating your children to an educator...Thats there job.

And it's your job to actually be a parent to your children, as much as that may pain you.

Now you are saying teachers are not responsible for their own job performance? No that's not what I've said at all, but feel free to be as obtuse as you like. I have no problem with your kids turning out to be garbage men.