[FourEsters]

A thousand years ago is being extra charitable.

I don't think it's a question of years so much as circumstance. It's not a conjecture I'd want to test, but I'm fairly certain it'd be possible to stir up similar responses from fundamentalist Christians in the US - especially if a Muslim military was occupying our land.

[Vapepreab]

I don't think it's a question of years so much as circumstance. It's not a conjecture I'd want to test, but I'm fairly certain it'd be possible to stir up similar responses from fundamentalist Christians in the US - especially if a Muslim military was occupying our land.

We would never let a Muslim military occupy our land. But, if they want to buy a chunk of it, we would sell.

[SetSnonejog]

Yeah, thanks Jones you asshole for doing this whilst troops are deployed in Muslim nations because you're such as 'Christian,' as well as these types of haters within the much larger Muslim community who always look for an excuse to bully, abuse, maim and kill people and claim "it's for God/God's will" etc. There's always that wing of Kool Aid hateful religious people that are always looking for an excuse to start shit where everyone has to duck or have a loved one call the undertaker. I just wish they'd buy themselves a personal battlefield and slay themselves alone 'for God' so the rest of society can go and live in peace.

I don't think the Koran should be burned. At minimum, one should at least read it first.

That said, making the Koran a special case of 'a holy book thou shalt not burn' is precisely the state of affairs the radical Muslims are after. They are supremacists through and through. What does it say about the US, or the West in general, if we get to the point where one can burn a Bible, or fashion 'art' in the form of Piss Christ but we have to treat Islam with kid gloves?

I would venture to say we look pretty cowardly.

Also, whatever Jones' shortcomings are as a Christian, he flat-out doesn't rate being put into the same category as those who would murder other people over a book they didn't even burn.

He just doesn't.

[VemyhemiHef]

Well, here we go.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/02/wo...ghanistan.html

I understand that this dipshit has the right to burn Korans.
I understand that the Afghan reaction is not "American in nature", but everyone knew this would happen.

Well Goober my question to you is?

How many people would be dead if someone burnt a bible?

ANSWER: None

[Kilsimpaile]

While I agree with you in general, Afghans are going to have to evolve some to progress as a country.

Some of that process involves getting used to being offended.

If all it takes is one book burning to set some people off, that's a sign that various other things could do the same. So, again, more offenses might help us to determine where the problem areas of Afghanistan are in terms of general insanity.

Most Muslims are sane people who might get upset by Koran burnings, but the minority of them that flip out over it need to be identified and dealt with.

The Quran burning started a demonstration.
No more no less.

The killings were a response to Afghan security units firing blindly into a crowd of protestors.

Though assholes like Jones should be put away for life.
He´s the sort of idiot who give the USA a bad name.

[VemyhemiHef]

The Quran burning started a demonstration.
No more no less.

The killings were a response to Afghan security units firing blindly into a crowd of protestors.

Though assholes like Jones should be put away for life.
He´s the sort of idiot who give the USA a bad name.

Well when Pizza Hut and McDonalds REFUSES to move into Pakistan I imagine we can expect the same response from radicals. They're going to kill somebody over it. And you dummies are going to blame somebody for their violence.

When will you liberals learn--that radical MUSLIM extremists use about anything they can (for an excuse)--to kill people?

[FourEsters]

Well Goober my question to you is?

How many people would be dead if someone burnt a bible?

ANSWER: None

Under similar circumstances? Many, many more. I'm always astounded how difficult it is for some people to see things from the other guy's perspective. Can you do it?

If our country was occupied by a UN force dominated by a Muslim nation bent on US "regime change", do you think that a few of your less stable Christian 'brothers' might come unglued at the slightest provocation?

[SetSnonejog]

Under similar circumstances? Many, many more. I'm always astounded how difficult it is for some people to see things from the other guy's perspective. Can you do it?

If our country was occupied by a UN force dominated by a Muslim nation bent on US "regime change", do you think that a few of your less stable Christian 'brothers' might come unglued at the slightest provocation?

I don't think you have thought this through. What do you think life in the US would be like if we were occupied by a Muslim nation that was bent on changing our 'regime'...to what??

[Kilsimpaile]

What a bunch of retards. Well, I hope Jones is happy with himself. Fucktard didn't listen to those who warned him.

But the response is even worse. It's a bunch of fucktards making it worse for everybody else.

Sorry for the language, but I find both actions entirely deplorable, but I find killing somebody over a book burning entirely insane.

I predict this will only inflame even more Christian protest whenever Muslims will want to build anything, such as a community center. Of course people will respond to those actions with accusations of Islamophobia.

This is just crap situation all the way around.

Some people just can't help themselves.

Seems, everything happening these days is automatically labelled "religious".

The crowd in Masar-i-Scharif was protesting against the book burning.
Afghan security unit quite obviously had their pants filled and fired into the crowd.
Which obviously believed, the orders to shoot had been given by the UN officials.

The killings were a response to the attack on the protestors.

NOT to the burning of the Quran.

It appears, US media are the only ones declaring the affair a terrorist action.
Better to read other news around the world.
Most are less biased.
The Murdoch shit always is though.

[Kilsimpaile]

Well when Pizza Hut and McDonalds REFUSES to move into Pakistan I imagine we can expect the same response from radicals. They're going to kill somebody over it. And you dummies are going to blame somebody for their violence.

When will you liberals learn--that radical MUSLIM extremists use about anything they can (for an excuse)--to kill people?

Could you be honest just for once and also add:

When will radical self-styled Christians stop provoking others with the INTENT to start killings ?

[zbckFNlW]

I don't think the Koran should be burned. At minimum, one should at least read it first.

Agreed. It's an ignorant, tactless and provocative thing to do IMO. I think the Book of Mormon is a hoax given objective facts easily disprove it, e.g. the Native Americans came from Asia several thousand years ago by DNA, archeological, etc, evidence. Still, I wouldn't burn it as it would be unnecessarily offensive to many decent people who believe it. As you suggested, I even have a copy of it in my personal library for reference purposes, as with some versions of the Bible, an English translation of the Qu'ran and some other religious study material.

That said, making the Koran a special case of 'a holy book thou shalt not burn' is precisely the state of affairs the radical Muslims are after. They are supremacists through and through. What does it say about the US, or the West in general, if we get to the point where one can burn a Bible, or fashion 'art' in the form of Piss Christ but we have to treat Islam with kid gloves?

I would venture to say we look pretty cowardly.

Agreed. Moreover, we would be emboldening extremists by doing so, teaching them that their tactics can be successful. I would never concede that free speech issue to extremists, no matter how crude and rude it may be. It's the extremists who have to respect the human rights of others just as people must respect theirs IMO.

Also, whatever Jones' shortcomings are as a Christian, he flat-out doesn't rate being put into the same category as those who would murder other people over a book they didn't even burn.

He just doesn't.

I agree but with an explanation. In no way whatsoever was what these Islamic extremists did acceptable for any reason. It's also certainly worse conduct...far, far worse, the ultimate worst...they killed innocent people. Even if they killed Jones, it would be likewise no excuse...Jones did not threaten them with any deadly force. He expressed his dislike of Islam in a very offensive way. Nobody has any justified reason to kill him for that.

That said, Jones knew what effects this would have with such extremists. He wanted to ring that bell, so whilst I hold the Islamic extremists who did these crimes criminally responsible, I believe Jones bears his share of moral responsibility for it. Just because someone has a right to do something doesn't mean he or she should do something or that it should be socially acceptable conduct amongst peers and the community just because it's legal.

For example, if I knew a widow was in suicidal straights over the loss of her husband, and I pulled a Westboro Baptist Church move on her at her husband's funeral, and she killed herself later that evening because what I did pushed her over that mental cliff, I may have had a right to do what I did, but I am morally responsible for contributing to the result, and society ought to call me a total POS and 'fault' me for my role in that, try to create a socially acceptable standard of human dealings within the boundaries of the law condemning such conduct as people do with the Westboro types, etc.

[FourEsters]

I don't think you have thought this through. What do you think life in the US would be like if we were occupied by a Muslim nation that was bent on changing our 'regime'...to what??

What question are you trying to ask? "to what" isn't relevant. You really can't do it, can you? You can't put yourself in the other person's shoes and understand how it might look from their perspective.

The point is that people who feel powerless lash out in irrational ways. That doesn't make it right, but refusing to recognize that, refusing to understand that provoking desperate people will only make things worse, is idiotic.

[VemyhemiHef]

The problems LIBERALS have with the middle east is:

1. Most if not all meaning 99.9% of them are illiterate. They can't read nor write.
2. For centuries--(if it weren't for Isreal and the U.S--they would be very busy killing each other off.)--as they have done that for centuries. They are war lords--and typically never form unions or bonds with other war lords--much like the American indians. They are the same today--they haven't changed.
3. Because they are stupid of the modern western world--the educated MULLAHS and dictators that were likely educated in Europe or the United States keep them in the dark and oppressed through ignorance--and oppression--(like young females outlawed from being educated or going to school.)

So--YES--these people are going kill ANYONE for what they believe is an injustice to them--and the ONLY thing they know--is THEY'RE freakin Quran--taught by a radical mullah--since they can't read.

If they get upset about anything else--they're going to do what they've been doing for centuries--KILL anyone and everyone.--That's their ignorant mindset--and it's been there for centuries--and why liberals still don't get that they're not westerners--Europeans--or Americans is really absurd ignorance on their own part.

For YOU Liberals--Just think of Pakistanie's--the Palestinians--Al Queda and others (that are illiterate) which is the majority in the middle east-- as GINGUS KHANG. And their book of war--which they probably can't read--but has been memorized and beat into them--is the Quran.

You liberals get it yet--this country and others are dealing with people who come out of the MIDDLE AGES--in our terms.

[FourEsters]

The problems LIBERALS have with the middle east is:

1. Most if not all ...

For YOU Liberals--Just think of Pakistanie's--the Palestinians--Al Queda and others (that are illiterate) which is the majority in the middle east-- as GINGUS KHANG. And their book of war--which they probably can't read--but has been memorized and beat into them--is the Quran.

You liberals get it yet--this country and others are dealing with people who come out of the MIDDLE AGES--in our terms.

Do you really think it's just liberals who disagree with you on this?

[SetSnonejog]

What question are you trying to ask? "to what" isn't relevant. You really can't do it, can you? You can't put yourself in the other person's shoes and understand how it might look from their perspective.

Well, as an American, the only way I can concieve my country's 'regime being changed' by a Muslim nation [say, Saudi Arabi, Syria or Iran] entails some unsavory consequences. It may be convenient for you to pretend there wouldn't be any for the sake of your argument, but I don't feel obligated to ignore them.

The point is that people who feel powerless lash out in irrational ways. That doesn't make it right, but refusing to recognize that, refusing to understand that provoking desperate people will only make things worse, is idiotic.

Are they desperate or pathologically hyper-sensitive? I agree that Jones is an idiot. I'll even accept that he purposely provoked the Muslims in question.

But if you think appeasing them will cure their pathology you would make a poor psychologist.

[FourEsters]

But if you think appeasing them will cure their pathology you would make a poor psychologist.

Build your strawman out of something else. I didn't say anything about appeasing. I'm simply sick of morons pretending that the only way to deal with conflict is to treat the opposition as inhuman, as depraved lunatics who can't be reasoned with or understood. We push and provoke them and then when some of them finally break and do something stupid, we jump up and down insisting that it proves the case.

If our military wasn't in their face, day in and day out, they wouldn't give a rat's ass how many Koran's we burned. THAT's what no one wants to talk about.

[hotsaucemidl]

On May 22, 2009 the US Military burned bibles sent to US troops in Afghanistan because the military feared what Muslims might do if they saw them. Nobody was killed. Nobody rioted. Christians didn't act like Muslims. Now imagine the international carnage that would follow if the US government burned a single koran.

Military burns unsolicited Bibles sent to Afghanistan - CNN.com

When Salman Rushdie wrote the Satanic Verses, Muslims rioted and bookstores were firebombed and calls were made for the author's head.
Salman Rushdie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Theo Van Gogh produced a movie short about Muslim violence against women. Mohammed Bouyeri shot him eight times, slit his throat and stabbed him.

In 2005 a series of irreverant editorial cartoons about Mohammed were published in a Danish newspaper. Over one hunderd people died in riots.

In 1987 an "artist" urinated in a jar, put a crucifix in it and took a photo. Nobody died.

Another alleged artist made a portrait of Jesus mother, Mary. Animal feces was a significant component. To my knowledge, nobody died.

A John Edwards campaign writer made a graphic pornographic joke about God having sex with Mary and nobody died.

How many people would Christians kill if a bible was burned by an Imam? Zero, unless they acted like Muslims.

[regfortruegoo]

How many people would Christians kill if a bible was burned by an Imam? Zero, unless they acted like Muslims.

No, they'd be acting like insane Christians...

[Cofeeman]

Except there aren't very many. Piss christ resulted in zero deaths. And liberals screamed "1st amendment!" at the relatively mild criticism by the Religious Right, which mainly focused on the fact that this offensive art was funded by taxpayers.

Would the government ever fund a Piss Mohammed? Would liberals defend it? I doubt it.

[VemyhemiHef]

Do you really think it's just liberals who disagree with you on this?

Really--you might want to read a book called "Skeleton's on the Zaraha"--one of Abe Lincoln's favorite books--and one that is believed to pursuade his thoughts against slavery. A "TRUE" book regarding an American ship that got stuck in Mulim land--prior to his time as POTUS. Muslims and the middle east have not changed since then.

And if you would actually look up your facts--and read books written by MUSLIMS who grew up and were raised in the Middle-East--versus just assuming they are like you and I--you may change your mind.

Most Muslims in the middle east are illiterate--99.9% of Afganistans are--and still have no idea why we are there--and have absolutely no knowledge what-so-ever of 9/11. THAT IS A FACT.