[yurawerj]

we're capitalists

Exactly...

Our actions have often been different than our ideals. After all, nations don't have permanent friends or enemies, only permanent interests.

But where our interests are not at stake, and even sometimes where they have been, we've at least morally sided with the people against their governments. And even where we did support tyrants, we've had enough sense to have them leave when the people rise against them.

That doesn't represent an interest in the freedom of others. That's just the Machiavellian nature of our government (which is basically the same for other power players in the world).

It's never really been about democracy or freedom.

[Sheestgag]

At some point, political correctness will yield to national security. I fear that many lives will be lost before sanity prevails.

Unfortunately they won't realize that until it's too late and we will all suffer. The radical Islamists are counting on that fact and it WILL happen. Thanks libs in advance.

the "they" in my statement being liberals who are 98% responsible for politcal correctness. so how many Muslims are killed by the US military's PC use of weapons?

[yxn2dC07]

I can understand why some folks in the M.E. want us to get the hell out. Yet, there is the oil issue. What the rest of the world needs, comes from the M.E. Economies and nations rely upon it. There has to be some sort of gurarantee of the oil flowing to us and others. If not for the oil, we would not even be over there, period.

So, the need for oil and then radical Islamism. Hell, that is like trying to mix oil and water. This isn't gonna work out well. Religion will once again be involved in war, on the one side, and the need for oil on the other. It sets up the perfect storm for modern civ.

[yurawerj]

We have done this originally because just as in JFK's inaugural speech we would stand against those who oppress people anywhere, anytime in the name of freedom.

OBVIOUSLY since that time it's been much more involved than that. But that's what most REGULAR Americans have believed in. It's gone from that original ideal to making deals for oil etc etc etc.

What the average person believes matters little compared to what the people in power believe. That's true of every government.

[erelvenewmeva]

We have done this originally because just as in JFK's inaugural speech we would stand against those who oppress people anywhere, anytime in the name of freedom.

OBVIOUSLY since that time it's been much more involved than that. But that's what most REGULAR Americans have believed in. It's gone from that original ideal to making deals for oil etc etc etc.

Exactly like the nation building of "W" in Bush's War. The political leaders have never stood up for oppressed people, especially the GOP. Most REGULAR Americans would close our borders except to meddle in foreign nations when it might mean cheaper oil or cheaper widgits.

Look at how REGULAR people are standing in line for the Wal-Mart doors to open to buy these cheap products from that China, a country in the forefront for people's rights.

[yurawerj]

Unfortunately they won't realize that until it's too late and we will all suffer. The radical Islamists are counting on that fact and it WILL happen. Thanks libs in advance.

the "they" in my statement being liberals who are 98% responsible for politcal correctness.

Muslim extremists and right wing extremists here feed off of each other. People like Khamenei will do their best to antagonize the West and rally the support of people who have been affected by Western intervention, while the right wing here will try to paint all Muslims as terrorists in order to inspire more interventionism and recruit paranoid people to their cause.

When looking at things rationally, the average American and the average Muslim aren't that different. Neither of us want to bother the other most of the time, and likewise, we're both prone to fearing cultures different from our own.

The average American really isn't that interventionist except when he/she is being manipulated with half-truths and paranoia. Most people just want to tend to their own lives.

[erelvenewmeva]

the "they" in my statement being liberals who are 98% responsible for politcal correctness.

[/QUOTE]

Yep, like those good old radical religious wing of the GOP, doing their book burnings, and banning of books they don't like from libraries, and in Texas, rewriting American history to color it in a religious, far right stance.

Yes, these are the enemy, not the liberals.

[SNUfR8uI]

Certainly:
At some point, political correctness will yield to national security. I fear that many lives will be lost before sanity prevails.

Unfortunately they won't realize that until it's too late and we will all suffer. The radical Islamists are counting on that fact and it WILL happen. Thanks libs in advance.

the "they" in my statement being liberals who are 98% responsible for politcal correctness.[/QUOTE]

Well,I have never talked to a gecko before,,that i can recall,, ok i have screamed at the TV when that little fucker is yappin.
I think you are on the RIGHT side,,,but who is the enemy here?

OK, I am back on track.
Muslims are not my cup of tea,,all of them,, I dont diferentiate,,which is where i am criticized,
If Khomeni doesn't want us, "porta mi"(I dont give a shit).
You see,, they are in Fantisy land, where they think they are in control.
Only if Husain Obama, wid no balls, bows to the POS's.
But even The Liar in Chief is not that stupid.

Solution: Bring back all the troops from Afganistan and Iraq STAT,, and send the Islamic Republic greetings in the form of smart bombs to their nuc sites--end of story!!! And the economy will rebound toooo!

PS,,send ConLib over there to negotiate and simultaniously de smart bombs--2 problems solved!!

[SNUfR8uI]

Why do you believe the US must insert itself into their lives?

How would you feel if a large and powerful country named Nemo inserted themselves in to America and started telling us what to do? Would you be saying "Nemo must be removed from the US world!" You know you would.

So, I understand your concern, but do you understand their concern?

OMG,, Chamberlin rears his ugly Canadian appeasment head again.
Husain Obama and ConAir and Dickie may bow,,, but WE WILL NEVER BOW to those crazy mutherfuckers who understand only one thing: the wrong end of a bullet,,
or better still,, after removing all troops from Afgan and Iraq,,
smart bombs,,shock and awe,, to the nuc sites NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sheestgag]

OMG,, Chamberlin rears his ugly Canadian appeasment head again.
Husain Obama and ConAir and Dickie may bow,,, but WE WILL NEVER BOW to those crazy mutherfuckers who understand only one thing: the wrong end of a bullet,,
or better still,, after removing all troops from Afgan and Iraq,,
smart bombs,,shock and awe,, to the nuc sites NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

my, how enlightened you aren't

[yurawerj]

OMG,, Chamberlin rears his ugly Canadian appeasment head again.
Husain Obama and ConAir and Dickie may bow,,, but WE WILL NEVER BOW to those crazy mutherfuckers who understand only one thing: the wrong end of a bullet,,
or better still,, after removing all troops from Afgan and Iraq,,
smart bombs,,shock and awe,, to the nuc sites NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dick isn't Canadian, and Neville Chamberlain was British.

[dyestymum]

Every time I read this thread title I think of the old Pogo cartoon.

[Sheestgag]

Dick isn't Canadian, and Neville Chamberlain was British.

there is alsoo a waring on his back that reads; Warning: large chunks of shit fly without warning".

[Loonerisav]

Conservatives don't like the idea of setting up or manipulating other governments, but since the founding we have stated that our ideals are to stand with free people over tyrants. All it takes is moral support.

Our actions have often been different than our ideals. After all, nations don't have permanent friends or enemies, only permanent interests.

But where our interests are not at stake, and even sometimes where they have been, we've at least morally sided with the people against their governments. And even where we did support tyrants, we've had enough sense to have them leave when the people rise against them.

Hmmm, then why are the rightwingers slamming Obama for supporting the protesters in Egypt? He's standing with the people over the tyrant, AND he's got enough sense to leave the tyrant when the people rise up against him.

[9Goarveboofe]

We have done this originally because just as in JFK's inaugural speech we would stand against those who oppress people anywhere, anytime in the name of freedom. OBVIOUSLY since that time it's been much more involved than that. But that's what most REGULAR Americans have believed in. It's gone from that original ideal to making deals for oil etc etc etc.

Shirley you must be kidding.

[P1international]

Amazes me that there are Americans so wrapped up in their own bullshit that they still wish to think if we just ignore problems they go away.......How that working for you all? The debt smaller? Nope. War disappear? Nope. Poverty change for the better? Nope. Did the radical Muslims who want our deaths forget about us yet? Nope.


Hey there is a world out there and it doesn't stop turning cause the USA stops paying attention.

[9Goarveboofe]

and you thought PC was a 21st century invention?

BTW, Political correctness has morphed in the past couple of weeks. Those who follow the Defense Dept and State Dept talking points, like Limbaugh, Hannity, Susan Estrich, and Hillary Clinton are now saying that democracy is not now and never has been America's main focus. Current politically correct Doublespeak is that doing what is in "America's best interest" is, and has always been, doing what is in the best interest of America.

It's only coincidental that their current position happens to be true, that the the State always did what it thought was best for the State, but they'll go back to singing the praises of democracy if it becomes convenient.

[yurawerj]

BTW, Political correctness has morphed in the past couple of weeks. Those who follow the Defense Dept and State Dept talking points, like Limbaugh, Hannity, Susan Estrich, and Hillary Clinton are now saying that democracy is not now and never has been America's main focus. Current politically correct Doublespeak is that doing what is in "America's best interest" is, and has always been, doing what is in the best interest of America.

Well, the funny thing is... That's more honest.

If we were more candid about what our real interests in foreign policy were, I think we'd get more respect in some ways.

When we try to paint our involvements as spreading freedom (as we historically have tended to), it always rings hollow as soon as someone points out whatever dictator we're propping up at the time.

[9Goarveboofe]

Well, the funny thing is... That's more honest.

If we were more candid about what our real interests in foreign policy were, I think we'd get more respect in some ways.

When we try to paint our involvements as spreading freedom (as we historically have tended to), it always rings hollow as soon as someone points out whatever dictator we're propping up at the time.

As I edited in while you were posting. "It's only coincidental that their current position happens to be true, that the the State always did what it thought was best for the State, but they'll go back to singing the praises of democracy if it becomes convenient."

[yurawerj]

As I edited in while you were posting. "It's only coincidental that their current position happens to be true, that the the State always did what it thought was best for the State, but they'll go back to singing the praises of democracy if it becomes convenient."

Oh absolutely... They use the cover story when it's convenient, and they dismiss it when it's proven wrong.

It would be much simpler to just not pretend any longer.