[googlopharm]

To me personally this budget was a real surprise but agreed with others that it is dead on arrival in the House. I did not expect quite the cuts Obama is looking to make to pay for other "investments" in the things he mentioned in the State of the Union speech.

[GarryPaterson]

Bush did not sign FY 2009. This is fact and Couric knows it.

[Eh085zE7]

. . . Jacob Lew, Obama's budget director, said that the president's spending proposal was a balanced package of spending cuts and "shared sacrifice" that would bring the deficits under control. Appearing on ABC's "Good Morning America," Lew said that Obama's budget would "stand the test that we live within our means and we invest in the future." . . .

Hard to imagine that Lew can make this statement when the facts are that the "deficit for the current year will surge to an all-time high of $1.65 trillion."

How would you classify his statement? The facts and his statement are completely at odds with each other, are they not?

[Idorsearogele]

tsquare, I'm almost sure that the difference is that the table you picked is only counting the "public" portion of the debt and is not counting the overall gross debt. That separation of the debt into 2 pieces was accounting shenanigans that started under Clinton (I think) and carries through to today.

United States public debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The part of the couric article that I quoted doesn't include the 2009 budget. It was the debt numbers as of Sept 2008.

[Idorsearogele]

No, I'm not.

The Bush budget years… (url= Historical Tables | The White House All numbers from here Table 1.1[/url])

Here you go, from your link, only use table 7.1

Year Gross Debt
2001 5,769,881
2002 6,198,401
2003 6,760,014
2004 7,354,657
2005 7,905,300
2006 8,451,350
2007 8,950,744
2008 9,986,082
2009 11,875,851
2010 13,528,807


9,986,082 - 5,769,881 = $4.2 Trillion

So without even counting bush's 2009 budget, he added to the debt $4.2 trillion, over double what you claimed earlier.

And yes, Obama is ramping it up much more steeply. So deficits actually matter?

[GarryPaterson]

tsquare, I'm almost sure that the difference is that the table you picked is only counting the "public" portion of the debt and is not counting the overall gross debt. That separation of the debt into 2 pieces was accounting shenanigans that started under Clinton (I think) and carries through to today.

United States public debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The part of the couric article that I quoted doesn't include the 2009 budget. It was the debt numbers as of Sept 2008.

That might be... but it is the public debt that is most important.

And as much as I'd love to blame it on Clinton, the 'unified budget' spending the SS surplus (which no longer exists) began under LBJ.

[uphokyhuP]

Obama's proposal is centrist.

The Republicans will propose something far more drastically right-wing like the conservatives in England.

Obama will find the common ground where he always finds it: halfway between his right-up-the-middle-as-usual plan and the drastic right-wing plan.

The middle class to working poor have been living high on the hog in recent years and need to sacrifice for all of us and Obama's plan addresses that specific problem.

What a sick fucking joke both of these parties are on this one. They should be ashamed of themselves. This does nothing to address the things that are very serious. $78 billion in cuts to defense is a nice start, but it's a drop in the bucket.

And yet Republicans are out there today saying the 12% cuts in foreign aid to pro-democracy groups in Egypt should not be made, go fucking figure, since the Republicans will oppose Obama on everything no matter what. Egyptians are going to sort out their democracy themselves now, and living on just over $100 million from US taxpayers to pro-dem groups instead of just over $110 is part of the sacrifice, hypocritical Republicans.

Newt just gave the most retarded speech I've heard him give blasting the tax-and-spend President, but then today he rails about cuts that Obama is making in money being sent to groups like the Muslim Brotherhood, who the Republicans just know in their gut is evil.

What a fucking farce.

Obama's plan cuts $1.1 trillion, an average of $110 billion per year, while the budget Republicans are proposing to finish off this year will see a savings of only $67 billion.

To the complainers and the fuzzy mathers here, this President put the wars on the books, and that's why his numbers are so off the wall, coupled with about $900 billion in tax spending that Republicans agreed to 7 weeks ago. Obama's deficits sure are high, but they're YOUR wars, conservative friends. Your poorly-planned, never-ending wars of a decade while Egypt fell over for free because they emulate our way of life. So much easier to emulate the American way of life when America isn't bombing your country to bits.

Now it comes time to cut stuff and no one is going after our military industrial complex as well as all the corporate welfare being doled out to entities that don't need it. $46 billion from oil and gas Mr. President? We can do better than that. What about subsidy cuts across the board?

Instead, Obama's plan pretty much raids a little bit of everything while investing some job creation measures, while the Republican proposal doesn't even mention defense spending and just goes after the most popular public programs out there.

If Obama isn't able to actually run on something he's willing to grow a spine over, he's toast, because there is a centrist proposal out there now from him, and a purely right-wing proposal, and no real progressive proposal that would surely go after defense and corporate welfare because yes, the wealth of America for 31 years now keeps moving wholesale from the bottom to the top and not the other away around, ever.

That is problematic if you want to maintain a civilized society and to dominate as a world power.

[uphokyhuP]

Here you go, from your link, only use table 7.1

Year Gross Debt
2001 5,769,881
2002 6,198,401
2003 6,760,014
2004 7,354,657
2005 7,905,300
2006 8,451,350
2007 8,950,744
2008 9,986,082
2009 11,875,851
2010 13,528,807


9,986,082 - 5,769,881 = $4.2 Trillion

So without even counting bush's 2009 budget, he added to the debt $4.2 trillion, over double what you claimed earlier.

And yes, Obama is ramping it up much more steeply. So deficits actually matter?

Why does nobody acknowledge the fact that Obama put the wars on the books, sending his deficits even higher? He inherited it from Bush and had the decency and the responsibility of accounting for it instead of pretending it doesn't exist.

[googlopharm]

Why does nobody acknowledge the fact that Obama put the wars on the books, sending his deficits even higher? He inherited it from Bush and had the decency and the responsibility of accounting for it instead of pretending it doesn't exist.

Because then they would have to admit that Bush was no more fiscally responsible in his time than Obama is now.

[Eh085zE7]

Because then they would have to admit that Bush was no more fiscally responsible in his time than Obama is now.

And the real truth of the matter is that neither party has anything about fiscal discipline to be proud of these last few administrations.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over lousy fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Alexander Fraser Tyler, Cycle Of Democracy (1770) (alleged) Yea, except in this case, it was the politicians that went and did it, didn't they?

So when do WE start demonstrating in the streets? (Just kidding, things haven't got bad enough just yet - give them time).

[Yyaqyped]

Hmm, that's probably cherry picking some aspect of the situation, possibly even the wars which weren't included in bush's budget. It CERTAINLY doesn't include the FY2009 budget which was effectively bush's and included a trillion or so in extra deficit. Remember, the gov't likes to pull tricks like not including wars in the budget and not counting the complete debt, instead focusing on the public portion of the debt.

Bush Administration Adds $4 Trillion To National Debt - Couric & Co. - CBS News

Yes, those are the correct figures, Bush increased our national debt by more than $4 Trillion, not including the more than $2 trillion in additional costs from just Bush's War in Iraq that will be ours in the next several decades.

That's not including the unfunded part of the Iraq and Afghanistan actions. Now that President Obama is counting that as part of the deficit, it makes it look larger than if it were under the shady accounting of "W". Of course, that part of President Obama's debt should still be considered "W"s debt.

And, of course, the deep recession started under "W" administration, that is costing us so much to try and stay out of a depression. All should be counted under "W"s costs.

[Idorsearogele]

And as much as I'd love to blame it on Clinton, the 'unified budget' spending the SS surplus (which no longer exists) began under LBJ.

The accounting had been done that way before Clinton, but I thought that the Clinton admin was the first to start only mentioning the public debt when discussing how great their policies were.

Why does nobody acknowledge the fact that Obama put the wars on the books, sending his deficits even higher? He inherited it from Bush and had the decency and the responsibility of accounting for it instead of pretending it doesn't exist.

It was something I was definitely aware of, amazed he was willing to take the political hit for doing it, and glad he did it. What bush did to mask the cost of the wars should have been treated as an accounting crime.

[bactrimtab]

Is this guy fucking retarded or is he just delusional?

Seriously...

Obama sends Congress $3.73 trillion budget vowing 'tough choices' but with record deficits - chicagotribune.com

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama sent Congress a $3.73 trillion budget Monday that holds out the prospect of eventually bringing deficits under control through spending cuts and tax increases. But the fiscal blueprint largely ignores his own deficit commission's view that the nation is imperiled unless huge entitlement programs like Social Security and Medicare are slashed.
Yeah? WTF????

The guy is a lunatic that doesn't comprehend anything. And people laugh at the Cloward-Piven concept????

Obama is fucking delusional or he's doing his best to destroy us.

[bactrimtab]

I know wiki isn't reliable but look at this shit...

United States public debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now remember the libs had a super majority from 2006-2010...

[googlopharm]

http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/whit...et-2012-a.html

We have an existing open topic on this, 3 pages well into the discussion, and in "The White House" section of the forums. Request to close or merge.

[bactrimtab]

http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/whit...et-2012-a.html

We have an existing open topic on this, 3 pages well into the discussion, and in "The White House" section of the forums. Request to close or merge.

I didn't know. Thanks.

merge..

[bactrimtab]

One thing I really hate about the spin on this is that he claims to be cutting spending, yet spending remains the same or goes up. This is because for every program he cuts he proposes 5 new programs. And he claims 10 year savings, when we know he wont be President in 10 years or even 2, and the circumstance will change in 1. And the media goes right along with it.

Thats because the mindless liberals believe every word he says.

If he says hes cutting spending - liberals treat that shit as fact - despite the reality that Obama is a fucking liar.

At least this time there isn't a liberal super majority to pass it.

[GarryPaterson]

Thats because the mindless liberals believe every word he says.

...and spend most of their time here screaming about Bush. Sure guys, lets yell at the guy that dented the car 10 years ago, while ignoring the guy burning the house down right now!

Also lost on everyone on the left is... as Mr Nick pointed out... no spending cuts. There are tax increases...

* Raising the top marginal income tax rate (at which a majority of small business profits face taxation) from 35% to 39.6%. This is a $709 billion/10 year tax hike
* Raising the capital gains and dividends rate from 15% to 20%
* Raising the death tax rate from 35% to 45% and lowering the death tax exemption amount from $5 million ($10 million for couples) to $3.5 million. This is a $98 billion/ten year tax hike
* Capping the value of itemized deductions at the 28% bracket rate. This will effectively cut tax deductions for mortgage interest, charitable contributions, property taxes, state and local income or sales taxes, out-of-pocket medical expenses, and unreimbursed employee business expenses. A new means-tested phaseout of itemized deductions limits them even more. This is a $321 billion/ten year tax hike
* New bank taxes totaling $33 billion over ten years
* New international corporate tax hikes totaling $129 billion over ten years
* New life insurance company taxes totaling $14 billion over ten years
* Massive new taxes on energy, including LIFO repeal, Superfund, domestic energy manufacturing, and many others totaling $120 billion over ten years
* Increasing unemployment payroll taxes by $15 billion over ten years
* Taxing management capital gains in an investment partnership (“carried interest”) as ordinary income. This is a tax hike of $15 billion over ten years
* A giveaway to the trial lawyers—not letting companies deduct the cost of punitive damages from a lawsuit settlement. This is a tax hike of $300 million over ten years
* Increasing tax penalties, information reporting, and IRS information sharing. This is a ten-year tax hike of $20 billion.

1.5 trillion worth.

Obama's FY2012 Budget:
Taxes, Taxes, and More Taxes

[bactrimtab]

Yes, those are the correct figures, Bush increased our national debt by more than $4 Trillion, not including the more than $2 trillion in additional costs from just Bush's War in Iraq that will be ours in the next several decades.

That's not including the unfunded part of the Iraq and Afghanistan actions. Now that President Obama is counting that as part of the deficit, it makes it look larger than if it were under the shady accounting of "W". Of course, that part of President Obama's debt should still be considered "W"s debt.

And, of course, the deep recession started under "W" administration, that is costing us so much to try and stay out of a depression. All should be counted under "W"s costs.

Yeah keep blaming Bush.... You see, thats the leftists problem. You blame Bush while your leftists annually spend what bush spent in 8 years.

FURTHERMORE - Presidents dont spend money the fucking congress does, and for the last 4 years we've had a liberal supermajority, and before THAT it was a 50/50 split in the 110th.

So please fucking tell me what BUSH DID, since republicans really have had no power since 2007...

Do you fucking understand that?? republicans have had little power since 2007!!!!!!!!!

So yeah, keep on talking hyperbole liberal bullshit.

[Nwxffgke]

Ok, Lets all agree.

EVERY PRESIDENT BEFORE OBAMA SUCKED... ok??

Now, that we have that out of the way, talking about regan, bush , clinton FDR, carter, Nixon, Kennedy can stop.

We need to discuss what the current administration can do to stop this increase in our national debt.