[RagonaCon]

TPM: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...ts.php?ref=fpa

Since signing a bill earlier this year to strip public unions of most of their collective bargaining rights, Ohio Gov. John Kasich's (R) approval rating has plummeted, bottoming out at a new low in a PPP poll released Wednesday. As if that weren't bad enough, the poll also found Kasich losing a theoretical do-over election -- by an enormous 25-point margin.

Kasich narrowly defeated incumbent Gov. Ted Strickland (D) last November, and almost immediately set his sights on rolling back public sector collective bargaining rights through a bill known as S.B. 5. That drive was deeply unpopular with his constituents, prompting large protests and sending the governor's approval rating into a nosedive.

In the latest poll, only 33% of registered voters said they approve of Kasich's job performance, compared to 56% who said the disapprove of it. That result ties Kasich with Florida's Rick Scott (R) as the most unpopular of the 38 governors PPP has surveyed.

...

Kasich's union-busting bill is the driving force behind his falling approval rating. In the poll, 55% of voters said they would vote to repeal S.B. 5, while 35% said they would let it stand. A Quinnipiac poll released last week presented a similar finding, with a majority of registered voters in that survey also saying they would like to see the law repealed.

[Gakeincidoniac]

Same thing happened to Mitch Daniels in Indiana several years ago, the anger ginned up by the liberal hate machine will dissipate after the people of Ohio see that all the angst was about nothing. They will see that Gov. Kasich was able to effect great cost savings with minimal or more likely non-existent cuts in services.

[gDGwm8BC]

The difference is this is not several years ago, the anger today is at a fever pitch, do you know anyone in Ohio, have you spoken to them? The Liberal hate machine, please, get real. The GOP is running over the middle class to appease the Koch brothers and other deep pocket contributors but the majority of average people are sick of it, it's not a liberal hate machine, it's outrage of over reaching politicians trying to screw everyday people for the benefit of a few. I have friends in Ohio and this is not a passi9ng phase, nor is it in Wisconsin and Florida too. The GOP has lost it's mind and the 2012 elections will show more people are paying attention, again this is not the same as "Several Years Ago".

[cypedembeda]

The difference is this is not several years ago, the anger today is at a fever pitch, do you know anyone in Ohio, have you spoken to them? The Liberal hate machine, please, get real. The GOP is running over the middle class to appease the Koch brothers and other deep pocket contributors but the majority of average people are sick of it, it's not a liberal hate machine, it's outrage of over reaching politicians trying to screw everyday people for the benefit of a few. I have friends in Ohio and this is not a passi9ng phase, nor is it in Wisconsin and Florida too. The GOP has lost it's mind and the 2012 elections will show more people are paying attention, again this is not the same as "Several Years Ago".

I live in Wisconsin, we see the liberal hate machine in effect every day. I see that you may have been affected by it (or are part of it). It seems to me that the Public service unions have been trying to screw the majority (the taxpayers) for the benefit of a few (the overpaid public service employees) and to the great benefit of the very few the Public Service Union Leaders.

Yes Public Service Union members are overpaid their benefits are in excess of what they would receive if union supporters were not at both sides of the bargaining table.

[BartRonalds]

The public unions were willing to compromise on all the financial issues and benefits in question, but it was not enough for Scott Walker, he had to take away collective bargaining rights too, that is over reaching and, being a bully. It will be interesting to see if you are with a majority or minority with your line of thinking in Wisconsin, time will tell. Hate machine no, concerned, informed and compassionate citizen, yes. What I do hate is selfish, mean people and that is how the GOP is looking right now. I love having competent teachers for my kids and driving down paved roads with no pot holes, I travel internationally plenty and I love living in the USA. I was a registered GOP member until about 2 years into GWB first term, yes I voted for him but watched his actions and decided he was not supporting my values. we don't have to destroy the village to save it.

[Faumpiggueria]

Well, a judge today struck down the collective bargaining bill in Wisconsin, agreeing that Republicans there hadn't given enough public notice about the vote. I wouldn't be so proud to rally behind a bill that had to be forced through using illegal tactics and which might be overturned by the courts.

[StitsVobsaith]

Well, a judge today struck down the collective bargaining bill in Wisconsin, agreeing that Republicans there hadn't given enough public notice about the vote. I wouldn't be so proud to rally behind a bill that had to be forced through using illegal tactics and which might be overturned by the courts.

You mean you would not be proud of bullying people you were elected to serve? Oh the horror.

[hablyShappY]

The public unions were willing to compromise on all the financial issues and benefits in question, but it was not enough for Scott Walker, he had to take away collective bargaining rights too, that is over reaching and, being a bully. It will be interesting to see if you are with a majority or minority with your line of thinking in Wisconsin, time will tell. Hate machine no, concerned, informed and compassionate citizen, yes. What I do hate is selfish, mean people and that is how the GOP is looking right now. I love having competent teachers for my kids and driving down paved roads with no pot holes, I travel internationally plenty and I love living in the USA. I was a registered GOP member until about 2 years into GWB first term, yes I voted for him but watched his actions and decided he was not supporting my values. we don't have to destroy the village to save it.

If you hate selfish mean bullies then you should hate the public teachers union who have bullied the taxpayers into overpaying them to excess. Public school teachers in Wisconsin are paid about 30% more than private school teachers. Are you making the claim that Public school teachers are 30% better or more competent than their private school counterparts? Or are you willing to consider that 30% overpayment to public school teachers might better be used elsewhere? T

[lzwha]

Well, a judge today struck down the collective bargaining bill in Wisconsin, agreeing that Republicans there hadn't given enough public notice about the vote. I wouldn't be so proud to rally behind a bill that had to be forced through using illegal tactics and which might be overturned by the courts.

Liberal Biased judge from Dane County. The Wisconsin Supreme Court will very likely not only overturn the ruling but say the judge that the court did not even have standing to make the ruling. This happens all the time in Wisconsin because all cases dealing the state government are filed with the circuit court in Dane County where Madison and our State Capital are. Dane County is exceedingly liberal and they elect judges that are extremely out of touch with the rest of the State.

[Rasklad]

If you hate selfish mean bullies then you should hate the public teachers union who have bullied the taxpayers into overpaying them to excess. Public school teachers in Wisconsin are paid about 30% more than private school teachers. Are you making the claim that Public school teachers are 30% better or more competent than their private school counterparts? Or are you willing to consider that 30% overpayment to public school teachers might better be used elsewhere? T

I would be willing to admit that different districts have different pay and different results and that I know many teachers in my area as my wife was a teacher for many years, and they are not over paid, not buy along shot. They are at the school way before the students, and leave way after, do all kinds of stuff at home and basically live for ther school and and students for 9 months and earn that summer break, which they unwind and then start planning the curriculum for the next year. They start at around 30K and those that make over 60K are rare and have put many years into their profession and that is not a whole lot of money. Yet we demand that our kids get a top notch eduction so they can compete in the global economy. Parents are often absent and many houses led by a single parent, but it's the teachers fault John and suzy are falling behind in their studies. In California's they spend 11% of their budget towards incarceration and 7.5% towards education, yet the general public does not understand why the USA as a whole is falling behind the rest of the industrial world in Science, Math and other critical subjects necessary for an advanced society.

Fine cut the teachers pay and bargaining rights but you better home school your kids and take responsibility for their education, if you hope they are going to rise above the burger flipping jobs.

[Diwokfkq]

I would be willing to admit that different districts have different pay and different results and that I know many teachers in my area as my wife was a teacher for many years, and they are not over paid, not buy along shot. They are at the school way before the students, and leave way after, do all kinds of stuff at home and basically live for ther school and and students for 9 months and earn that summer break, which they unwind and then start planning the curriculum for the next year. They start at around 30K and those that make over 60K are rare and have put many years into their profession and that is not a whole lot of money. Yet we demand that our kids get a top notch eduction so they can compete in the global economy. Parents are often absent and many houses led by a single parent, but it's the teachers fault John and suzy are falling behind in their studies. In California's they spend 11% of their budget towards incarceration and 7.5% towards education, yet the general public does not understand why the USA as a whole is falling behind the rest of the industrial world in Science, Math and other critical subjects necessary for an advanced society.

Fine cut the teachers pay and bargaining rights but you better home school your kids and take responsibility for their education, if you hope they are going to rise above the burger flipping jobs.

The definition of overpaid is that the teacher is recieving more money than another person could be hired for to do a comperable job. Simple. It is likely that in most districts in your State if a teacher were to quit there would be a line of similiarly qualified people ready to take that teachers job, probably for less money. Public Unions drive up wages above fair market value, that is unfair to the taxpayer.

[verizon]

Many who feel that a vocation to teach is in their blood are being convinced that the job uncertainties, declining work environment and minimal pay outweigh the benefits of doing what they feel they were born to do. I doubt that California's would-be teachers are alone in this. The societal devaluation of education and instructors is the most foolish investment decision of our generation.

LA Times: http://articles.latimes.com/2011/apr...ching-20110404

Education experts are warning of a shortage of new teachers in a few years as large numbers of baby boomers start to retire from teaching jobs and larger numbers of youngsters enter elementary school.

"It's a very dramatic decline," noted Dale Janssen, executive director of the state Commission on Teacher Credentialing. "It's kind of difficult to encourage people to become teachers when every time this time of year they hear about 20,000 pink slips going out."

In California, the number of teaching credentials issued annually fell 29% during the last five years, from 28,039 in 2004-05 to 20,032 in 2009-10, according to a new report by the state Commission on Teacher Credentialing. The biggest decline, nearly a 50% drop during that period, was in the multiple subject credential usually required to teach elementary school youngsters, while some demand for high school math and science teachers remains.

Beverly Young, the Cal State system's assistant vice chancellor for teacher education, said economic uncertainties are not the only factor. Potential teachers are discouraged by increasingly crowded classrooms and more emphasis than before on testing and scripted lessons.

"I think people are seeing it as a less attractive career and a more stressful one," Young said. But, she said, those who still pursue teaching careers decide the negatives are outweighed by the chance to help youngsters.

...

Younger teachers, whose annual starting salaries are about $35,000, bear the brunt of the "last hired-first fired" response to budget problems and student enrollment decline. The number of first- and second-year teachers in California dropped by half, to slightly more than 18,000, between the 2007-08 and 2009-10 academic years, according to a report by the Center for the Future of Teaching and Learning, a Santa Cruz-based nonprofit.

But the report says more teachers will be needed in the future, and not just to fill the jobs of retiring baby boomers. Elementary school enrollment statewide is expected to increase 7% by 2018 and high school enrollment, declining now, will start to grow again by 2016, according to the study. Meeting the demand for teachers will require more recruiting by university credentialing programs "as well as a redoubling of efforts to make the teaching profession attractive to new and experienced teachers alike," the report said.

[cxddfrxc]

Minimal Pay, hardly. Overpaid definitely. Public Service Unions have driven the Pay and Benefit packages of Public School teachers way above their market value. Did you know that average pay and benefits for Milwaukee Public School teachers is over 100K for a 9 month job? Virtual slaves, huh?

[tabcdyop]

Yeah, they should rotate some younger teachers into that district. From what I've been able to find, the Nicolet district, which is the one you cite, does have average salary + benefits totals at just above $100k. They apparently achieved that point by downsizing teacher positions aggressively in recent years. Using a "last hired, first fired" process, they managed to remove all but the most veteran teachers from their schools. A 20+ year teacher in the state likely hits $75k in salary, and another $25k in benefits parks you right around $100k. If they were to swap in a bunch of newer teachers, the salary + benefits numbers would drop instantly and significantly.

The average pay + benefits level for teachers across the state is "an average of $49,816 in salary plus $25,325 in benefits for a total of $75,141," according to Politifact, using state Department of Public Instruction figures. That's a very reasonable level.

BTW, that $75k salary figure for a teacher is about in line with what veteran grocery clerks get here in California.

[TOD4wDTQ]

Minimal Pay, hardly. Overpaid definitely. Public Service Unions have driven the Pay and Benefit packages of Public School teachers way above their market value. Did you know that average pay and benefits for Milwaukee Public School teachers is over 100K for a 9 month job? Virtual slaves, huh?

We can agree to disagree, that 9 month job argument is total BS, and I see the life style they live and it's nothing splendid. You get what you pay for, so don't complain if you don't like the finished project.

[Fuerfsanv]

Considering I feel solving the problems of tomorrow starts with educating the children of today, I think there's a need for good education and teachers deserve to be well-paid. Especially when opponents are already responsible for decreasing numbers of teachers and increasing class sizes.

[statistica]

Yeah, they should rotate some younger teachers into that district. From what I've been able to find, the Nicolet district, which is the one you cite, does have average salary + benefits totals at just above $100k. They apparently achieved that point by downsizing teacher positions aggressively in recent years. Using a "last hired, first fired" process, they managed to remove all but the most veteran teachers from their schools. A 20+ year teacher in the state likely hits $75k in salary, and another $25k in benefits parks you right around $100k. If they were to swap in a bunch of newer teachers, the salary + benefits numbers would drop instantly and significantly.

The average pay + benefits level for teachers across the state is "an average of $49,816 in salary plus $25,325 in benefits for a total of $75,141," according to Politifact, using state Department of Public Instruction figures. That's a very reasonable level.

BTW, that $75k salary figure for a teacher is about in line with what veteran grocery clerks get here in California.

The last in first fired is a union bargained here in Wisconsin, Scott Walker's plan would actually allow school districts to determine layoffs based on other factors rather than the date you were hired. For example if you are a good teacher or not.

In Milwaukee the State School teacher of the year was among the first laid off because she lacked senority.

BTW the Nicolet School district is the one that Oprah went to when she was growing up. It is not the one I cited, though, I am refering to the Milwaukee Public School District (which is City of Milwaukee only)
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/...-salary-and-b/