[triardwonvada]

Mountains of Debt
Worthless Money
Unaffordable Healthcare
Ineffective Education
Overpriced Housing
Stagnant Wages
Rampant Unemployment
Expensive Energy
Undue Incarceration
War

[ChuttyAmult]

Since I'm interested in the subject, I have to ask.

Do you dislike the concept of government per se, or merely the format you have at present?

[dalnecymync]

Since I'm interested in the subject, I have to ask.

Do you dislike the concept of government per se, or merely the format you have at present?

The best answer is that I like it better the closer it is to me, and the more say I have in the matter.

But it is also true that I don't like being told what to do...

[replicamuse]

The best answer is that I like it better the closer it is to me, and the more say I have in the matter.

But it is also true that I don't like being told what to do...

Right.

Do you agree that pure democracy is practically unworkable? As opposed to the representative democracy we have currently? I understand that you weren't being literal. I'm just curious as to where you draw the line between absolute subsidiarity, and the efficiency of granting a certain latitude for governmental autonomy.

Or, more simply, at what point would you be willing to permit government to make decisions, without the direct and universal imprimatur of the electorate?

[lapInsalm]

Right.

Do you agree that pure democracy is practically unworkable? As opposed to the representative democracy we have currently? I understand that you weren't being literal. I'm just curious as to where you draw the line between absolute subsidiarity, and the efficiency of granting a certain latitude for governmental autonomy.

Or, more simply, at what point would you be willing to permit government to make decisions, without the direct and universal imprimatur of the electorate?

Representation is key. You elect the best leaders, if you can. But you acknowledge that leadership is necessary.

But, after electing representatives, it is far easier to make your feelings known to the local town council made up of people who you know and live with than it is to effect decisions thousands of miles away where you have only one representative or a few that are beholden specifically to you and your community, your culture, etc...

This is why it should function in a pyramidal shape. The vast majority of decisions should be made in the town or city jurisdiction, and as you go farther and farther away, the amount of power and function should be shrunk, until at the very top, there are only a handful of items which concern the National body.

[ThzinChang]

America has accomplished a lot. Including the American government.

It's easy to point out the faults. They are outweighed by the many accomplishments.

[inownsuipsy]

If Bush was still pResident you'd be squealing like a pig with his corkscrew pecker caught in a barbed-wire fence, commie sense.
The beige fraud has lulled you to sleep.

[iH1wMOhE]

If Bush was still pResident you'd be squealing like a pig with his corkscrew pecker caught in a barbed-wire fence, commie sense.
The beige fraud has lulled you to sleep.

My comments have nothing to do with the president.

Would all of you be crying like you are if George was still POTUS?

[attishina]

Shove your head up your hole, shit-bug.

[JasminBerkova]

Representation is key. You elect the best leaders, if you can. But you acknowledge that leadership is necessary.

But, after electing representatives, it is far easier to make your feelings known to the local town council made up of people who you know and live with than it is to effect decisions thousands of miles away where you have only one representative or a few that are beholden specifically to you and your community, your culture, etc...

This is why it should function in a pyramidal shape. The vast majority of decisions should be made in the town or city jurisdiction, and as you go farther and farther away, the amount of power and function should be shrunk, until at the very top, there are only a handful of items which concern the National body.

Good post, man.

One concern there would be that joint effort towards such as national security couldn't be adequately addressed, where co-ordination was impeded by any emphasis on state sovereignty. Since it appears that individuality is the chief concern here, any take on a constitution probably wouldn't be binding either. I'll accept that the inverted pyramid could be great for local affairs, but where national agenda is diluted to that extent, I have to wonder just how effective any national venture would be; such necessary projects as communications and transport for example. For another thing, it couldn't in itself address corruption, since you'd afford the same opportunity for it in reverse. In a sense, what you'd have is multiple big governments rather than one.

All in all, the inverted emphasis on state supremacy would necessitate an even greater need for a cohesive arbiter than exists at present, unless you're going for total independence of each state, as though they were each a nation unto themselves. By definition, that couldn't be The United States.

A better model would be a diamond-type distribution, whereby the process begins with your own example, but filters back down to state level, and in direct proportion to the extent of subscription. Of course that supposes a higher federal entity, but with decisions being passed for consideration against an agreed reference, with the final say back where the process began. This is all before we even begin to get into bureaucracy.

[egexgfczc]

Good post, man.

One concern there would be that joint effort towards such as national security couldn't be adequately addressed, where co-ordination was impeded by any emphasis on state sovereignty. Since it appears that individuality is the chief concern here, any take on a constitution probably wouldn't be binding either. I'll accept that the inverted pyramid could be great for local affairs, but where national agenda is diluted to that extent, I have to wonder just how effective any national venture would be; such necessary projects as communications and transport for example. For another thing, it couldn't in itself address corruption, since you'd afford the same opportunity for it in reverse. In a sense, what you'd have is multiple big governments rather than one.

All in all, the inverted emphasis on state supremacy would necessitate an even greater need for a cohesive arbiter than exists at present, unless you're going for total independence of each state, as though they were each a nation unto themselves. By definition, that couldn't be The United States.

A better model would be a diamond-type distribution, whereby the process begins with your own example, but filters back down to state level, and in direct proportion to the extent of subscription. Of course that supposes a higher federal entity, but with decisions being passed for consideration against an agreed reference, with the final say back where the process began. This is all before we even begin to get into bureaucracy.

Okay.

The original idea of the United States is more similar to the European Union, in many ways, than to the current makeup of the USA. That is key. You cannot understand my take on this without first understanding that point.

So, the idea was that each State was a State. Hence the wording. The union and the federated government was put into place in order to resolve inter-State disputes, manage a uniform currency, provide a coalition-based large defense, and pay for infrastructure that was beneficial to all. It also established a bill of rights that was mandatory for inclusion into the union.

So, from the start, we need to treat Pennsylvania, where I live, as a Germany or a France, etc...

This system follows the pyramidal concept I have advocated, so far as I can tell.

[Mjyzpzph]

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[repldoinfo]

Okay.

The original idea of the United States is more similar to the European Union, in many ways, than to the current makeup of the USA. That is key. You cannot understand my take on this without first understanding that point.

So, the idea was that each State was a State. Hence the wording. The union and the federated government was put into place in order to resolve inter-State disputes, manage a uniform currency, provide a coalition-based large defense, and pay for infrastructure that was beneficial to all. It also established a bill of rights that was mandatory for inclusion into the union.

So, from the start, we need to treat Pennsylvania, where I live, as a Germany or a France, etc...

This system follows the pyramidal concept I have advocated, so far as I can tell.

Are you suggesting that the US start from scratch? What you suggest would require a major overhaul. You'd basically be dismantling the entire country.

[JAMES PIETERSE]

Are you suggesting that the US start from scratch? What you suggest would require a major overhaul. You'd basically be dismantling the entire country.

We'd hardly be starting from scratch. We have everything in place, right now, to resume behaving like a Constitutional Federated Republic.

[whimpykid]

We'd hardly be starting from scratch. We have everything in place, right now, to resume behaving like a Constitutional Federated Republic.

Christ, it's a hell of a concept. Akin to removing the hull of a ship, and expecting it not to sink whilst you build another one. Imagine the turmoil in the interim. Are you sure that the federal government hasn't become so embedded, that it could be disposed of without taking everything with it?

[RicardoHun]

Christ, it's a hell of a concept. Akin to removing the hull of a ship, and expecting it not to sink whilst you build another one. Imagine the turmoil in the interim. Are you sure that the federal government hasn't become so embedded, that it could be disposed of without taking everything with it?

We have 50 hulls inside of a gigantic hull, in this nation. Where do you see the catastrophe?

[Dr.Hoodoba]

We have 50 hulls inside of a gigantic hull, in this nation. Where do you see the catastrophe?

Ah. You mean to achieve it piecemeal? I assumed you intended to refashion every state simultaneously. I'm not convinced that wouldn't cause even more problems than one almighty cataclysm. Seriously, what you're proposing is not only monumental, but fundamentally hazardous. You may just grant certain interests the opportunity they require, to revise the entire system in their own image. The ensuing maelstrom would be fertile ground for any demagogue on the make.

It can't be right.

[SpeavaJap]

Ah. You mean to achieve it piecemeal? I assumed you intended to refashion every state simultaneously. I'm not convinced that wouldn't cause even more problems than one almighty cataclysm. Seriously, what you're proposing is not only monumental, but fundamentally hazardous. You may just grant certain interests the opportunity they require, to revise the entire system in their own image. The ensuing maelstrom would be fertile ground for any demagogue on the make.

It can't be right.

Wrath, every State in the Union still functions fundamentally like the States did in 1792. They have the same infrastructure, the same governmental structure, etc.

[zatronanec]

Wrath, every State in the Union still functions fundamentally like the States did in 1792. They have the same infrastructure, the same governmental structure, etc.

Well, to hear you guys describe it, the federal government has become engorged to the point where it basically has it's fingers in every pie. If true, I fail to see how it could be pried away like a limpet from a rock, whilst leaving no mark.

[AssinHT]

Less FED-and if there's any more government at ALL-make it local, otherwise we'll have some jerk in DC that's originally from somewhere like New York trying to tell everyone to give up their transportation and take the subway.
Or maybe some jerk from Southern Cal telling people in Minnesota to walk or ride their bike in the dead of winter.
One size doesn't fit all.