[teodaschwartia]

Germans from what I have researched have lived in Eastern Europe for a long time. That is until like 1945 when the majority of them went to Germany. Going by their numbers, they probably had a major impact on the people of Eastern Europe and even Finland too since they also had settlements there. It's like germans are everywhere. Again, this is something to me. I just want to know from you guys.

[SusanSazzios]

Nonsense. Maybe some eastern Europeans do have some German blood, but Germans themselves are heavy mix of various ethnic groups, so like I said in another thread, it's very hard to define "German blood" in the first place.

Before the era of bourgeois revolutions western Europe was comprised mostly of empires, but with the rise of modern nations-states things started to get complicated. French started the trend declaring all people living in France as French nation. Without the king and the Church, there was very little actually that would held them all together. So they came up with nationalism.

Others followed, such as Germans, they needed to reinvent "the German nation" in order to unify "the German lands", so they declared all German speaking people as Germans.

[himecthekWiff]

That's not totally correct. Mozart, for example, already called himself a "Teutscher" (German person [old spelling]) and Germany "Teutschland, mein geliebtes Vaterland" (Germany, my beloved fatherland). That appeared in letters to his father before the French Revolution brake out.

[Patabeamn]

The German nation, and the borders of its country today, relatively are new. The German ethnicity is like the Finnish ethnicity. They are both rather young, compared to other neighboring countries, ethnicities, and nations which are older.

200 years ago, did 'Germany' even exist???

[Phoneemer]

Mozart already answered that question.

[Qrhzbadu]

That's not totally correct. Mozart, for example, already called himself a "Teutscher" (German person [old spelling]) and Germany "Teutschland, mein geliebtes Vaterland" (Germany, my beloved fatherland). That appeared in letters to his father before the French Revolution brake out.

Maybe, but Mozart was Austrian, and only German thing there that I can think of is German language, brought by German nobility. Natives were Slovenes and Czechs. Same goes for you - Bavarians. You are German only because you live there, but your closest ethnic relatives by far are Czechs.

Even the name Bavaria (Bayern) comes from Boii, which was the recorded name of local (supposedly "Celtic") tribe, and also the Latin name of Czechia - Bohemia (Böhmen). Now, I don't know what Boii means in Germanic or Celtic languages, but I do know Slavic word Boj - battle (schlacht), Bojar/Bojary (Russian medieval nobility), Bojovnik - warrior (krieger) etc. You can make the picture yourself.

History is a bunch of lies, unfortunately.

[Usesdiums]

Eastern Germans are Eastern European in my opinion, and they obviously do.

[jenilopaz]

If you think of Latvia as a part of Eastern Europe then yes, every Latvian should have something German in them.

[BrandandGeneric]

Maybe, but Mozart was Austrian (...)

That's what modern "anti-German" Austrians would like you to believe. Mozart's father was born in Augsburg, his mother in Salzburg (as Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart himself), which was not even Austrian during his lifetime, but independent, culturally basically a Bavarian territory and therefore a part of the "Bairischer Reichskreis":
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskreis

Mozart was later living and dying in Vienna, yes, but actually that doesn't even matter as German speaking parts of Austria during the 1700s were as German as the Rhineland or Hesse (or otherwise we also have to call Goethe a "Frankfurtian" and not a German poet )

(...) and only German thing there that I can think of is German language, brought by German nobility. Natives were Slovenes and Czechs.

Yeah, the famous Slovenes and Czechs from Salzburg.... hmpf

Same goes for you - Bavarians. You are German only because you live there, but your closest ethnic relatives by far are Czechs.

Even the name Bavaria (Bayern) comes from Boii, which was the recorded name of local (supposedly "Celtic") tribe, and also the Latin name of Czechia - Bohemia (Böhmen). Now, I don't know what Boii means in Germanic or Celtic languages, but I do know Slavic word Boj - battle (schlacht), Bojar/Bojary (Russian medieval nobility), Bojovnik - warrior (krieger) etc. You can make the picture yourself.

History is a bunch of lies, unfortunately.

That's a laughable theory, just like your pan-Slawism (especially if one thinks about the many wars and little solidarity between various Slavic people). The Boii were Celts, who indeed gave this region their name, but they were absorbed by Romans (some of them also lived in Gaul and N. Italy) and Germanic tribes. It's obvious that you don't like the fact that Slavic people arrived rather late "on the stage". Trying to make people believe the Boii were Slavs is about as absurd as all these funny theories that you would hear from Turks.

[Jueqelyl]

Its all complicated, 'germanic blood' might be interpreted as germanic tribes of year zero, or of year 1000, or of year 1900. In each case, 'germanic' would be something else, sometimes significantly.
Considering all this, probably many eastern Europeans have some germanic blood, from various stages of all these, I think that lots of Germans have Slavic blood in them too, again-coming from various stages and definitions of 'slavic blood'. Hitler is spinning in his grave haha.

[Vedun*]

That's what modern "anti-German" Austrians would like you to believe. Mozart's father was born in Augsburg, his mother in Salzburg (as Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart himself), which was not even Austrian during his lifetime, but independent, culturally basically a Bavarian territory and therefore a part of the "Bairischer Reichskreis":
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskreis

Mozart was later living and dying in Vienna, yes, but actually that doesn't even matter as German speaking parts of Austria during the 1700s were as German as the Rhineland or Hesse (or otherwise we also have to call Goethe a "Frankfurtian" and not a German poet )

Maybe so, but this discussion is not about Mozart or any other individual that at some time called himself German. There were other people too who were called German in their time, like Ludwig der Deutsche. He was "German" while his own brother was "French". Try sorting that out.

The point was in the absurdity of very notion of "German blood", as well as nationalism of western European nations. It's a bunch of lies.

Yeah, the famous Slovenes and Czechs from Salzburg.... hmpf

That's a laughable theory, just like your pan-Slawism (especially if one thinks about the many wars and little solidarity between various Slavic people). The Boii were Celts, who indeed gave this region their name, but they were absorbed by Romans (some of them also lived in Gaul and N. Italy) and Germanic tribes. It's obvious that you don't like the fact that Slavic people arrived rather late "on the stage". Trying to make people believe the Boii were Slavs is about as absurd as all these funny theories that you would hear from Turks.

I don't give a flying lamb's nipple about pan-anything, pan-slavism particularly, so don't mistake me for one. This is about historical truth.

The etymology of the word Boii is neither Celtic nor Germanic, as I already pointed out the similarity between Bayern and Boyars (Bojary) - warriors, nobility. Suffice to say that Czech also means warrior in Slavic.

Austria is not Slazburg only, and the toponyms there don't support some "post Celtic/Germanic" Slavic invasion. That's simply a nonsense. What does Vienna (Wien) means in German, or let's say Graz?

To conclude, Bavarians got Germanised early, but your folk customs, music, costumes, the way you speak German etc. still today don't point very much to German direction.

[sbrpkkl]

Austria is not Slazburg only, and the toponyms there don't support some "post Celtic/Germanic" Slavic invasion. That's simply a nonsense. What does Vienna (Wien) means in German, or let's say Graz?

Indeed I have always been wondering what Vindobona (see means:

Vindobona (Celtic/Gaulish windo- "fair/white/blessed", bona "base/bottom", presumably so-named from its geological/topological position[citation needed]) was originally a Celtic settlement, and later a Roman military camp on the site of the modern city of Vienna in Austria. Around 15 BC, the kingdom of Noricum was included in the Roman Empire. Henceforth, the Danube marked the border of the empire, and the Romans built fortifications and settlements on the banks of the Danube, including Vindobona.

... and what does it have to do with Wends:

Wends (Old English: Winedas, Old Norse: Vindr, German: Wenden, Winden, Danish: Vendere, Swedish: Vender) is a historic name for West Slavs living near Germanic settlement areas. It does not refer to a homogeneous people, but to various peoples, tribes or groups depending on where and when it is used. Today, it is used either in historical contexts or as a catch-all term for Lusatian Sorbs, and their descendants, like the Texas Wends.

... "who are Noricians":

After the destruction of the tower and the division of the nations, the sons of Shem occupied
the eastern regions, and sons of Ham those of the south, and the sons of Japheth the western and the northern lands. Among these seventy-two nations, the Slavic race is derived from the line of Japheth, since they are the Noricians, who are identical with the Slavs. Over a long period the Slavs settled beside the Danube, where the Hungarian and Bulgarian
lands now lie. From among these Slavs, parties scattered throughout the country and were known
by appropriate names, according to the places where they settled. The Rus' Primary Chronicle


?

[katetomson]

Maybe so, but this discussion is not about Mozart or any other individual that at some time called himself German. There were other people too who were called German in their time, like Ludwig der Deutsche. He was "German" while his own brother was "French". Try sorting that out.

Early Frankish rulers spoke both Old French and Old German, so what? Seems that his grandfather Charles the Great mostly spoke a language that was the last common ancestor of Dutch and West Middle German.

The etymology of the word Boii is neither Celtic nor Germanic, as I already pointed out the similarity between Bayern and Boyars (Bojary) - warriors, nobility. Suffice to say that Czech also means warrior in Slavic.

The etymology of this word Boii is according to linguists coming from an Indo-European term that refers either to cattles or warriors. And as the Celts were Indo-European speakers themselves there is no real contradiction. Besides that, there are some personal and place names like Boiorix, Boiodurum (now Passau) and Boius (some Gallo-Roman guy), which are obviously not referring to Slavic people. Again: only pan-Slavists would bother an construct a connection between the Boii and old Slavs, so don't lie and pretend you're not one of them.

Austria is not Slazburg only, and the toponyms there don't support some "post Celtic/Germanic" Slavic invasion. That's simply a nonsense. What does Vienna (Wien) means in German, or let's say Graz?

Hmpf, nobody denied the Roman and sometimes Slavic origin of several settlements in modern Germany, so what? Is there anybody here, who acts as if Germans were just "purely German"? You are seeing a problem where there is none. Please, get over your complexes, which are obviously connected to Anti-Slavic propaganda in Germany during the last two decades.

[blackjackblax]

Do most Eastern European have some German ancestry?

If you go back 1000 years, then yeah, I would say almost everyone in Eastern Europe has some German or Germanic segments in their genomes.

But I think a better question is, do most Eastern Europeans have significant German ancestry,or at least an amount that is meaningful in some way? I would say no.

However, I've been surprised at 23andMe by how common German and Scandinavian ancestry seems to be amongst East Slavs. This is based on the info shared by people I'm in contact with over there.

[zoppiklonikaa]

E

Hmpf, nobody denied the Roman and sometimes Slavic origin of several settlements in modern Germany, so what? Is there anybody here, who acts as if Germans were just "purely German"? You are seeing a problem where there is none. Please, get over your complexes, which are obviously connected to Anti-Slavic propaganda in Germany during the last two decades.

Decades? I think you meant to say-Centuries?
I thought last two decades (or four or five) were very little antislavic or none, especially comparing to what started with Bismarck and peaked with Nazis?

[johnteriz]

A few Slavs and Germanics are also connected through ydna defining mutation R[m207] R1a/R1b, have a common paternal lineage.

[Spisivavona]

A few Slavs and Germanics are also connected through ydna defining mutation R[m207] R1a/R1b, have a common paternal lineage.

yeah but its quite an ancient history plus, in this way half of Europeans are connected, or maybe more?

[DoroKickcrofe]

I wonder how common any 'germanic' (i use that term loosey) segments in the genomes of French or British are? I suppose in eastern France and England pretty common , but towards the west non-existant?

[avaiftBoara]

I wonder how common any 'germanic' (i use that term loosey) segments in the genomes of French or British are? I suppose in eastern France and England pretty common , but towards the west non-existant?

They're common in the English.

But I don't know how much that says, because Irish segments are pretty common in Eastern Europe too. Or rather, there's sharing there, and it might be via Scandinavia, I don't know. In any case, there's a lot of sharing across Europe, from west to east, and from north to south.

[wrbwrbwrb]

It is still a common ancestor.It becomes more difficult to say you are better than someone, because you have super genes, when technically you belong to the same grouping, and you have the same great great great grandfather.