[sandracuk]

And I share my faith with them and can bond with them as kindred spirits.


It's a very complicated question, eh?

I truly feel for the Christian Albanians who came to Sicily and to Southern Italy to flee Islam. On the surface one would have surmised that they had chosen their religion, and yet they have managed to kept their ethnicity, whereas they compromised on their Orthodox faith and became Catholics, while they remain Albanians, five hundred years later... and yet, they can't really go back to Albania now. It's not their homeland anymore.


I concur.

there are many many many Christian Albanians in Albania and Kosova and 2ice as more as there are in Italy and they don't have any problems and no one is discriminating them.

So you feel kindred to the people that have your same religion and you would intermix with them ( Marriage, friendship etc.. ) which automatically falls in contradiction what Ethnicity stands for ( preserving your linguistic, cultural, racial, traditional values ).

isn't this somehow messed up???

[qCGfQR9T]

I chose religion, but what I really mean is "belief." Beliefs are the foundation of our morals. There is no other more important thing.

Ethnicity is important too though, as it governs your culture and also what things you're more willing to do, and how you identify, but I'd say your beliefs are more directly linked to your absolute, foundational motivation to do anything.

Then again these two things are intertwined, as ethnicity will impact which religions/beliefs you're exposed to initially, but I put it like this:

Ethnicity is something earthly - like your body, an earthly vessel.

Belief is more or less the foundation of everything you do in life, if religious or spiritual it will have relevance beyond the earthly vessel. It will affect the "soul" in some religions, and your place in "the heavens."

[hojutok]

Race-mixing is not conducive to (or accepted by) Ethnic identities or communities.

Unless you define 'Ethnicity' different than most people…?

Hate is not the issue; it is about how anybody can preserve their 'Ethnicity'.


Thus: How can anybody preserve their Ethnicity??

by nurturing his/her own traditions, customs, language and race which means also by not marrying outside your ethnic group.

[Eromaveabeara]

Well, they're Arbereshe, not Sicilians. They have their own church and they don't intermarry much.

[Shemker394]

I chose religion, but what I really mean is "belief." Beliefs are the foundation of our morals. There is no other more important thing.

Ethnicity is important too though, as it governs your culture and also what things you're more willing to do, and how you identify, but I'd say your beliefs are more directly linked to your absolute, foundational motivation to do anything.

Then again these two things are intertwined, as ethnicity will impact which religions/beliefs you're exposed to initially, but I put it like this:

Ethnicity is something earthly - like your body, an earthly vessel.

Belief is more or less the foundation of everything you do in life, if religious or spiritual it will have relevance beyond the earthly vessel. It will affect the "soul" in some religions, and your place in "the heavens."

We are talking about religion ( Islam, Christianity, Judaism ) not beliefs because beliefs are part of the religion also of culture.

But we are talking religion not believes.

what did you mean by this:

Then again these two things are intertwined, as ethnicity will impact which religions/beliefs you're exposed to initially ????

Intertwined like connected or what????

I don't think Ethnicity and Religion are connected I think they contradict each other and they are like Oil and water.

[estelle]

I chose religion, but what I really mean is "belief." Beliefs are the foundation of our morals. There is no other more important thing.

Ethnicity is important too though, as it governs your culture and also what things you're more willing to do, and how you identify, but I'd say your beliefs are more directly linked to your absolute, foundational motivation to do anything.

Then again these two things are intertwined, as ethnicity will impact which religions/beliefs you're exposed to initially, but I put it like this:

Ethnicity is something earthly - like your body, an earthly vessel.

Belief is more or less the foundation of everything you do in life, if religious or spiritual it will have relevance beyond the earthly vessel. It will affect the "soul" in some religions, and your place in "the heavens."

Well-stated, that is a very strong case for Religion.

I honestly do not have much Ethnic or Religious social identity myself; so I cannot speak on this topic…

[Wvq9InTM]

@ Grasshoppa: I also forgot to say that morals don't just come from religion, they also come from peoples' culture and traditions, Ethnicity also includes morals too and many morals come from Ethnicities.

How many Religions have been influenced by the morals of ethnicities???

Morals don't exclusively come from Religions ( talking about those three main religions I mentioined )

[tinetttstation]

@ Grasshoppa: I also forgot to say that morals don't just come from religion, they also come from peoples' culture and traditions, Ethnicity also includes morals too and many morals come from Ethnicities.

How many Religions have been influenced by the morals of ethnicities???

Morals don't exclusively come from Religions ( talking about those three main religions I mentioined )

Well said.

When it's not from a religion, they just call it a societal or cultural norm.

When your morals and someone from another country's morals collide, they call for cultural sensitivity.

[yespkorg]

We are talking about religion ( Islam, Christianity, Judaism ) not beliefs because beliefs are part of the religion also of culture.

But we are talking religion not believes.

I guess this can get abstract, when we start talking semantics. Is an atheist simply "without belief" or is "atheism" label strictly "without religion?" I guess the latter would be the common answer, but I don't see it so simply.

I cannot separate religion from fundamental beliefs; they're one in the same to me. What do we call a person who believes in a higher being, but follows no religion?

If by religion, you strictly mean those found in a book, regardless of general beliefs or non-religious spirituality, then I'm more inclined to revise my answer and say: "ethnicity is more important in my life, since I don't believe any strict religion 100% at the moment - thus my answer cannot be religion either way."

what did you mean by this:



????

Intertwined like connected or what????

I don't think Ethnicity and Religion are connected I think they contradict each other and they are like Oil and water.

I think they're connected, and I can't understand how they cannot be. Consider that "ethnicity" is very loosely defined to begin with, and incredibly inclusive - broadly it is just a common nationality, culture, race, or religion a group shares. Even considering that not all ethnicities are defined by religion (though many are) ethnicity and nationality inevitably influence your religion regardless.

For example, what are the odds that I, and African American would be a Buddhist versus a Christian, considering history and location? Definitely interwoven, without a doubt, just not strictly so.

[elektikaka]

I guess this can get abstract, when we start talking semantics. Is an atheist simply "without belief" or is "atheism" label strictly "without religion?" I guess the latter would be the common answer, but I don't see it so simply.

I think Atheism is the term that refers to a person without a religion or a person that doesn't believe in GOD or the creator as religion states.

Religion is not just a set of believes it is also a philosophy on creation and the almighty ( GOD )

there are different kind of believes and if an Atheist thinks that creation was done by coincidence and big bang was self initiated and there is no god that means that this person doesn't believe in god and doesn't believe in a religion because religions tell us that there is a god that initiated the big bang and the creation whereas the atheist says there is no GOD and the whole big bang was self initiation like the Mushrooms that don't need to be planted but happen to grow like that.

I cannot separate religion from fundamental beliefs; they're one in the same to me. What do we call a person who believes in a higher being, but follows no religion?

I can, not every belief deserves to be a religion and not every belief is related to a religion, sometimes believes come from our own self and consciousness and what we want to believe or think might be the case for something.

a belief in god also doesn't make you belong to a religion because there are a bunch of Rituals related to religion, there are a bunch of philosophies and other concepts related to religions.

Religion is more like a set of Believes, believing in God, Angels, Heaven, Hell, Judgement day, equality, Humanity etc etc...

Belief =/= Religion

If by religion, you strictly mean those found in a book, regardless of general beliefs or non-religious spirituality, then I'm more inclined to revise my answer and say: "ethnicity is more important in my life, since I don't believe any strict religion 100% at the moment - thus my answer cannot be religion either way."

yes that is exactly what I mean.

well then your answer can't be Ethnicity either cuz you same as me tend to say BOTH and both contradict each other.

I think they're connected, and I can't understand how they cannot be. Consider that "ethnicity" is very loosely defined to begin with, and incredibly inclusive - broadly it is just a common nationality, culture, race, or religion a group shares. Even considering that not all ethnicities are defined by religion (though many are) ethnicity and nationality inevitably influence your religion regardless.

They are not connected, because Ethnicity is about your own culture, traditions, race, customs, language whereas Religion is about the faith in god and that particular religion and Language customs and stuff that Ethnicity is concerned with don't matter AT ALL whereas Ethnicity without those things can't exist.

and as you said not all Ethnicities are defined by religion, many are but many are not, Religion is part of Ethnicity but that religion also will contradict you when it tells you that you are a brother with the one that has the same religion as you and Ethnicity is not important AT ALL.

For example, what are the odds that I, and African American would be a Buddhist versus a Christian, considering history and location? Definitely interwoven, without a doubt, just not strictly so.

I am not talking about the odds that you can be a Buddhist or something else, I am taking about even if you are Buddhist then it will still tell you that a Buddhist is a bro to a Buddhist doesn't matter if that guy is Albo, German, Chinese or Indian, whereas Ethnicity will tell you that you are a bro to the ones that you are related by Culture, Language, DNA, Customs.

[effenseshoora]

@ Grasshoppa: I also forgot to say that morals don't just come from religion, they also come from peoples' culture and traditions, Ethnicity also includes morals too and many morals come from Ethnicities.

How many Religions have been influenced by the morals of ethnicities???

Morals don't exclusively come from Religions ( talking about those three main religions I mentioined )

Before I elaborate, I'll note once again that the two are interwoven.

Remember, my definition of Religion was at first synonymous with "belief." Beliefs would be the most important thing you can imagine; beliefs are the foundation of my own motivation. If I believe in God, all my actions will be with him in mind. If I believe in self only (as some satanists or atheists), all actions will be with self in mind - beliefs would include life and possibilities of after life scenarios. Though, this is strictly for me.

Ethnicity, to me is an afterthought; it's like one facet of the body - the outer shell. Belief is the mind; the soul - the innards. I have no real strong ethnic allegiance, at least it's nowhere as strong as my beliefs and motivation to be or do in life.

This changes though, if I use your strict definition of Religion. Without a strict religion, it's simply impossible for religion to be more important for me personally, but but belief remains supreme, as they may or may not be tied to ethnicity.

[chinesemedicine]

I see your point, Ylee.

There comes a moment when anybody must reduce their beliefs (and identity) down to a common-point between their Ethnicity and Religion.

So which is more crucial to belief: Ethnicity or Religion?

[beriarele]

Ethnicity is more important...religion is part of one's culture and something you can choose to be part of. But your ethnicity is part of YOU and something you cannot deny.

[creewespock]

I believe hating someone because of their ethnicity is immoral.

But religion, it's fine, because people can't leave their religion, and cultures have changed religion en masse throughout history.

[lookanddiscover]

But your ethnicity is part of YOU and something you cannot deny.

And if somebody has two parents from different ethnicities?

Which one should he choose, if either?

Is ethnicity anything more than where & when a person is born, inside whichever country and boundaries?? For example, a Mexican mother is about to have a baby. She has a choice… have her child inside Mexico, or, the US. Which should she choose and does it change the baby's ethnicity?

Some will say yes or no.

[Opening-auto]

People can leave their religion, imho, but they can't leave their ethnicity, it's simply who they are.

I voted "Ethnicity" for sure, because no matter what religion you have, you're still ethnically who you are. There's nothing racial in this. It's just a heritage, and usually also culture.

And if somebody has two parents from different ethnicities?

Which one should he choose, if either?

Then they have two ethnicities, but I suppose the may identify with the one that they're culturally closest to. It doesn't matter where they're born, as they can have another ethnicity than their legal nationality.

Perhaps it's a bit different in the US, unless you consider "American" as an ethnicity.

[Sheelldaw]

And if somebody has two parents from different ethnicities?

Which one should he choose, if either?

You are what you are raised, and what you identify with.

I am not 100% Sicilian... then again, Sicilian ethnicity is artificial. But also, on that token, all ethnicities are, as they were developed by mankind.

I identify as Sicilian and not with my other ancestries. Barack Obama feels a kinship with Africans and African Americans and identifies as Kenyan, rather than the English or Irish from his mother, despite being raised by his mother.

Is ethnicity anything more than where & when a person is born, inside whichever country and boundaries?? For example, a Mexican mother is about to have a baby. She has a choice… have her child inside Mexico, or, the US. Which should she choose and does it change the baby's ethnicity?

Some will say yes or no.

Ireland's greatest Prime Minister was a man named Eamon De Valera who was born in New York and whose father was Spanish. He identified with his mother's heritage, learned Gaelic, and fought for Irish independence.

We're not dealing with absolutes. There is no black and white. Someone may choose to identify more with their adoptive country than with their native one, or may shun their ethnicity/ethnicities completely.

[TaliaJack]

I see your point, Ylee.

There comes a moment when anybody must reduce their beliefs (and identity) down to a common-point between their Ethnicity and Religion.

So which is more crucial to belief: Ethnicity or Religion?

well if you do that then in the future you will feel the need to increase your belief ( identity ) up to a point where you will have to chose Religion or Ethnicity.

I voted for BOTH.

I don't know now and I think this stuff is a big Paradox for now, I hope more high brow members like you and Grasshoppa get involved in this discussion.

no matter how low you reduce your belief still you will have the need in some point to chose something that you will identify yourself with more.

Before I elaborate, I'll note once again that the two are interwoven.

Remember, my definition of Religion was at first synonymous with "belief." Beliefs would be the most important thing you can imagine; beliefs are the foundation of my own motivation. If I believe in God, all my actions will be with him in mind. If I believe in self only (as some satanists or atheists), all actions will be with self in mind - beliefs would include life and possibilities of after life scenarios. Though, this is strictly for me.

Ethnicity, to me is an afterthought; it's like one facet of the body - the outer shell. Belief is the mind; the soul - the innards. I have no real strong ethnic allegiance, at least it's nowhere as strong as my beliefs and motivation to be or do in life.

This changes though, if I use your strict definition of Religion. Without a strict religion, it's simply impossible for religion to be more important for me personally, but but belief remains supreme, as they may or may not be tied to ethnicity.

I know what you are saying but Believes are not Religion since Religion is more than believes and it is also a set of believes that will contradict with Ethnicity and wanting to preserve your own ethnicity.

Believes are the foundation of your motivation I do agree but believes can be divided in many types, you can believe in white supremacy, Black Supremacy but that doesn't make it a religion or maybe it does and those religions are just other types of religions because definitely not all religions can be put in one bag cuz there are religions that don't preach humanity and brotherhood with the rest of people or maybe even Ethnicity is some kind of Cult and religion in its own way and that is in contradiction with Abrahamic Religions like the ones I listed.

the believes of a person that believes in god and the believes of a person that doesn't believe in god can be the same many times.

My father pretty much thinks there is no life after this life but that doesn't mean he is a bad person and wants to hurts other people, some people simply feel compassion for no reason towards other people and don't want to hurt or do any bad to other people just like people who believe in God because they also won't feel comfortable if something bad that they could do to others happened to them or simply they have a lot of humanity in themselves but don't believe in God, I mean feeling compassion is not something that is always attributed to people that believe in God but also people that Don't believe in god or that do believe in God or a super power and Creator but not religion.

I totally get your point and I read your posts carefully and I know what you saying, so you basically will chose Ethnicity over Religion ( not belief but religion ).

[monologue]

Ethnicity - which definition are we all using? We can't give accurate answers unless we specify:

Ethnic –adjective
1.
pertaining to or characteristic of a people, esp. a group (ethnic group) sharing a common and distinctive culture, religion, language, or the like.
2.
referring to the origin, classification, characteristics, etc., of such groups.
3.
being a member of an ethnic group, esp. of a group that is a minority within a larger society: ethnic Chinese in San Francisco.
4.
of, pertaining to, or characteristic of members of such a group.
5.
belonging to or deriving from the cultural, racial, religious, or linguistic traditions of a people or country: ethnic dances.

1.)If Ethnicity is "racial relationship" - I suppose it's more important by default, if you have no true religion.

2.)If Ethnicity is linguistic affiliation, my answer is the same as 1.

3.)If Ethnicity is cultural relationship, my answer is the same as 1.

4.)If Ethnicity is religious affiliation, the question is void.

If I suddenly become religious, scratch my answers for 1, 2, and 3. My afterlife, God, and "the heavens" must come first.

[oyymoss]

Ethnicity - which definition are we all using? We can't give accurate answers unless we specify:



1.)If Ethnicity is "racial relationship" - I suppose it's more important by default, if you have no true religion.

2.)If Ethnicity is linguistic affiliation, my answer is the same as 1.

3.)If Ethnicity is cultural relationship, my answer is the same as 1.

4.)If Ethnicity is religious affiliation, the question is void.

If I suddenly become religious, scratch my answers for 1, 2, and 3. My afterlife, God, and "the heavens" must come first.

1. relating to or characteristic of a human group having racial, religious, linguistic, and certain other traits in common

those Certain other traits would be Customs, Traditions etc...

then still many traditions derive from Religion since religion also includes rituals which affect your traditions but still there are traditions that are not related to the religion you believe or religion doesn't accept traditions that your Ethnicity has been doing for a long time .

p.s: I will go to sleep now cuz it is already 5:30 am I will be back tomorrow with more and check what is going on in this thread cuz I am not done and I hope there will be more people discussing about this.