[deackatera]

I thought I finally understood the Tuareg until just now. I reada really confusing article and now I'm asking.

Are the Tuareg a distinct group found throughout the Sahara end of the story? ( that's what I have been thinking)

Are they a group that is distinct but wth major Arab/ North African influence?

Are they a group related or branching from Berbers and Moorsfurther South of the Sahara moreso the Sahel?

or are they a group branching of or somewhat related to the Fulani within the Sahel?

I always found them complex yet fascinating. I thought they were a group found in the Sahara who were geneticlly similar to the Berber and Moor yet still a culture and people of their own with a completely unique language.

[jurnalkduo]

National Geographic 09/11 edition has an interesting article on the Tuareg: http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/20...areg/gwin-text
Lost Lords of the Sahara

Ruggedly independent,the Tuareg struggle to survive amid the turmoil of North Africa. By the fire I notice that the medic and another man bear the common ethnic

features of the African interior—dark brown skin, kinky hair, and broad noses. Two

men have olive complexions, smooth black hair, and sharp Mediterranean noses.

The other three are a mixture of all the traits. Regardless of skin color, a surprising

number have topaz blue eyes. This genetic grab bag suggests one of the riddles of

the Tuareg, who have always considered themselves a people apart yet for centuries

took slaves from other desert tribes and intermarried with them. The result is an

ethnic group distinguished primarily by its common language, Tamashek, which is

related to Berber tongues spoken in Algeria and Morocco.

[t78VPkdO]

I thought I finally understood the Tuareg until just now. I reada really confusing article and now I'm asking.

Are the Tuareg a distinct group found throughout the Sahara end of the story? ( that's what I have been thinking)

Are they a group that is distinct but wth major Arab/ North African influence?

Are they a group related or branching from Berbers and Moorsfurther South of the Sahara moreso the Sahel?

or are they a group branching of or somewhat related to the Fulani within the Sahel?

I always found them complex yet fascinating. I thought they were a group found in the Sahara who were geneticlly similar to the Berber and Moor yet still a culture and people of their own with a completely unique language.

Their language is not completely unique, they speak a southern berber dialect. We can keep talkin about how it's "different" from the other berber languages, but in fact all beberlanguages differ at least a bit from eachother-regional differences. Even within the subtribes

[libertiespana]

Well, AWall, I took it they were just a confederation of desert tribes calling themselves "Kel Tamasheq", meaning speakers of the Tamasheq language.

Interestingly "Tamasheq" sounds slightly similar to "Amazigh" and has consonants similar to "TMHW" (ancient egyptian name for a group of people living in the desert to their fairly immediate West, I think having something to do with "blue" or "indigo" -- these people themselves are usually seen as "Libyans").

More interestingly I recall a picture of a Zenata Berber man resembled the frizzy / braided (?) / grown-out hair style given to the TMHW in one dipiction, although the Berber dude in question was very dark skinned while the TMHW group are always creamy white skinned. They aren't the only "Libyans depicted but are the most famous on the internet.

---------- Post added 2011-09-11 at 21:57 ----------

By the way, in the depiction in question, I think the TMHW have brown / light brown hair

[tinetttstation]

Their language is not completely unique, they speak a southern berber dialect. We can keep talkin about how it's "different" from the other berber languages, but in fact all beberlanguages differ at least a bit from eachother-regional differences. Even within the subtribes

oh really!? I read a very good ebook about tuareg languages and their speakers and it did not mention Berber origins. Are Tuaregs a branch from the Berber which might explain Berber influence in the language?

---------- Post added 2011-09-11 at 22:07 ----------

Well, AWall, I took it they were just a confederation of desert tribes calling themselves "Kel Tamasheq", meaning speakers of the Tamasheq language.

Interestingly "Tamasheq" sounds slightly similar to "Amazigh" and has consonants similar to "TMHW" (ancient egyptian name for a group of people living in the desert to their fairly immediate West, I think having something to do with "blue" or "indigo" -- these people themselves are usually seen as "Libyans").

More interestingly I recall a picture of a Zenata Berber man resembled the frizzy / braided (?) / grown-out hair style given to the TMHW in one dipiction, although the Berber dude in question was very dark skinned while the TMHW group are always creamy white skinned. They aren't the only "Libyans depicted but are the most famous on the internet.

---------- Post added 2011-09-11 at 21:57 ----------

By the way, in the depiction in question, I think the TMHW have brown / light brown hair

Thanks I believe I know about the group you are talking about. I so wish I could find this book again because it stated that some Tuareg within the border of Libya andNiger had a remot language and culture although this was changing as they started being more exposed through trade and Anthopologist, alhough they still kept their women and children secluded from visitors. These groups , however, had feuds because some North of the border were light with finer features and those South of the border were darker and their language was not as refined ( to these people). i believe its the same group you're talking about.

I always thought Tamasheq and the other languages were apart of Amazigh.

[Broorbbub]

oh really!? I read a very good ebook about tuareg languages and their speakers and it did not mention Berber origins. Are Tuaregs a branch from the Berber which might explain Berber influence in the language?

I always thought Tamasheq and the other languages were apart of Amazigh.

Tuareg languages are a part of the greater berber branch: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berber_languages

[XU8i6ysK]

I thought I finally understood the Tuareg until just now. I reada really confusing article and now I'm asking.

Are the Tuareg a distinct group found throughout the Sahara end of the story? ( that's what I have been thinking)

Are they a group that is distinct but wth major Arab/ North African influence?

Are they a group related or branching from Berbers and Moorsfurther South of the Sahara moreso the Sahel?

or are they a group branching of or somewhat related to the Fulani within the Sahel?

I always found them complex yet fascinating. I thought they were a group found in the Sahara who were geneticlly similar to the Berber and Moor yet still a culture and people of their own with a completely unique language.

They are saharan berbers and, from my knowledge are the farthest southern branch of the berber people.

[nitivearchit]

They are saharan berbers and, from my knowledge are the farthest southern branch of the berber people.

oh so they are a branch from the Berber people. Are they considered Berber by other Berbers sch as those in North Africa or are they pretty much separated from other Berber branches ( possibly lighter Berber peoples)

[glopomcyte]

oh so they are a branch from the Berber people. Are they considered Berber by other Berbers sch as those in North Africa or are they pretty much separated from other Berber branches ( possibly lighter Berber peoples)

Well culturally they are considered fully berber (to my knowledge), genetically they have more admix from the south though.

[AnneseeKels]

Well culturally they are considered fully berber (to my knowledge), genetically they have more admix from the south though.

oh ok. Do they have alot of Fulani admixture?

---------- Post added 2011-09-11 at 22:32 ----------

Do you know what's their typical Y-Dna and Mtdna?

[Malinguenem]

oh so they are a branch from the Berber people. Are they considered Berber by other Berbers sch as those in North Africa or are they pretty much separated from other Berber branches ( possibly lighter Berber peoples)

There's not much solidarity between berber tribes..I can tell from the ones in morocco, a berber in north morocco will even rarely feel connected to the berbertribes in south morocco. Besides I'm not even sure if there're that many berbers in the mountainous parts of north africa(maybe with the exception of libyans and algerians; this b/c a fair share of the tuaregs reside in those countries) who know of the existence of tuaregs

[Q0KmoR8K]

The tuareg have always facinated me, their simplistic way of life in a harsh land, very admirable. They take good care of their camels and use salt as a currency.

[brilkyPlayday]

There's not much solidarity between berber tribes..I can tell from the ones in morocco, a berber in north morocco will even rarely feel connected to the berbertribes in south morocco. Besides I'm not even sure if there're that many berbers in the mountainous parts of north africa(maybe with the exception of libyans and algerians; this b/c a fair share of the tuaregs reside in those countries) who know of the existence of tuaregs

Realistically, is that because of skin color or some ethnic feature?

[Kryfamid]

Realistically, is that because of skin color or some ethnic feature?

No, it's more that berbertribes are spread all over north-africa and (used to be) very closed groups. They're only really devoted to their own (sub)tribe. I'd like to add that diasporans don't count of course.

[flielagit]

No, it's more that berbertribes are spread all over north-africa and (used to be) very closed groups. They're only really devoted to their own (sub)tribe.

I'd like to add that diasporans don't count of course.

i see. So language and culture really would separate them huh?

---------- Post added 2011-09-12 at 20:51 ----------

Was that because of race or trade or something like that?

i know that the Tuareg experienced many problems because of desertification and foreign alliances which are trying to force them into 'modernization'

[gambleingsites]

i see. So language and culture really would separate them huh?

It's more that they all ended up in certain parts of North-africa, spread from eachother, after the arabs arrived. You can see on this map(the locations of the different tribes)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Berbers.png
..pretty much spread apart from eachother

Also: in the past there used to be conflicts: the tribes living along the mediterranee VS those in the Sahara(even before the Arabs arrived)

[CesseOveldset]

It's more that they all ended up in certain parts of North-africa, spread from eachother, after the arabs arrived. You can see on this map(the locations of the different tribes)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Berbers.png
..pretty much spread apart from eachother

Also: in the past there used to be conflicts: the tribes living along the mediterranee VS those in the Sahara(even before the Arabs arrived)

It depends of which "tribal" divide you talk about, I mean the near ten millions of Kabyles are fellows for me of course, this is not often the case with a neighbouring Shawi and certainely not for a Saharan. In the other hand, Chenwis are kind of familiar and in good terms with Kabyles from Greater Kabyle.

That logic applies in all Maghreb (linguistic divide are regions are revelant, "tribes" no longer with modernity). In some linguistic borders, even in the same town or village the divide is very huge even in Greater towns.

To stick on topic, Tuaregs (and Moors) are not alike with most of the people in the proper Maghreb (North of Sahara). Sahara is an ethnical hub, people are very mixed despite a strong endogamy.

[8cyVn4RJ]

There's not much solidarity between berber tribes..I can tell from the ones in morocco, a berber in north morocco will even rarely feel connected to the berbertribes in south morocco. Besides I'm not even sure if there're that many berbers in the mountainous parts of north africa(maybe with the exception of libyans and algerians; this b/c a fair share of the tuaregs reside in those countries) who know of the existence of tuaregs

You are right Riffains don't even know that jebala/ghomara are berbers(ethnically) they think they're as arabs as those of Arabia and they don't know there are berbers in Algeria/Tunisia and Libya and Riffains would rarelly use "amazigh" to group themselves with other berbers,many Riffains think that "Riffain" is a race and that they and soussis are of different races

---------- Post added 2011-09-13 at 16:38 ----------

also many Algerian "arabs" I've met here in Spain(illegal immigrants) didn't know what "Kabylies" are

[ultimda horaf]

---------- Post added 2011-09-13 at 16:38 ----------

[/COLOR]also many Algerian "arabs" I've met here in Spain(illegal immigrants) didn't know what "Kabylies" are

They were certainly kidding otherwise they rather hate Kabyles with passion (more likely). Everyone know who are they in Algeria, that is impossible to escape to Kabyles... that's why some anti-Kabyles compare them to Jews Where they came from ??

[cafeviahe]

They were certainly kidding otherwise they rather hate Kabyles with passion (more likely). Everyone know who are they in Algeria, that is impossible to escape to Kabyles... that's why some anti-Kabyles compare them to Jews Where they came from ??

Saida and Tlemcen