[retyopj]

Egypt and Kush never really had a influence over the Middle East. The Middle East influenced Egypt and Kush ever since Assyria conquered Egypt.

Get outta here bro, there've been found monuments with the hieroglyphs for "vagina" ( aka p*ssies ) on them in areas they claimed to have conquered, like Palistine (that's right, they called Palestinian defensive efforts weaksauce). While the Phaorohs were civilized, the general people and whole culture just considered themselves the greatest men of all men (that's literally what their name for themselves, "Romu" would translate to in their own language, "men of men"), the baddest of all time. But then which people in history didn't?

[rikdpola]

It has been a homogeneous Caucasoid area through out all of times with a minor influx of north Africans. When looking at certain sub-ethnicities of parts of ancient Phoenicia such as Lebanon and the Maronites; you get a fully homogeneous Caucasoid people while the Sunnis have a minor African component.

Egypt and Kush never really had a influence over the Middle East. The Middle East influenced Egypt and Kush ever since Assyria conquered Egypt. The Middle East and Greece influenced Egypt, not vice versa.

Phoenician statues attached.

Yes, but the third statue is iberian (with typical clothes, jewels and ornaments)

[erroxiainsona]

Get outta here bro, there've been found monuments with the hieroglyphs for "vagina" ( aka p*ssies ) on them in areas they claimed to have conquered, like Palistine (that's right, they called Palestinian defensive efforts weaksauce). While the Phaorohs were civilized, the general people and whole culture just considered themselves the greatest men of all men (that's literally what their name for themselves, "Romu" would translate to in their own language, "men of men"), the baddest of all time. But then which people in history didn't?

Could you back up that information?

And once again, Egypt and Kush never conquered areas of the Middle East.

Yes, but the third statue is iberian (with typical clothes, jewels and ornaments)

Are you sure? I have it listed as a Phoenician statue.

[milfovoxapl]

Are you sure? I have it listed as a Phoenician statue. Yes, it is "la dama de Elche" (lady of Elche, Alicante, Spain), a typical iberian woman (see depictions of Arthemidorus Ephesius)

[mussmicky]

Having one or two black ancestors does not make one black.

All the artwork depicting Carthaginians makes them look purely Caucasoid, so whatever black genetic influence had to be minimal.

Africanists as a whole are fringe anyway.

Berbers don't have just one or two "black" ancestors, they're intermediate between Europeans and other Africans.

Really? Funny how mainstream Africanist theories happen to be supported by many in the scientific community, no?

It still amazes me how people still perceive North Africans to be "Europeans with some "Negro" admixture" and not "Africans with some Eurasian admixture". After all their African ancestry predates the presence of Eurasian gene-flow.

---------- Post added 2011-08-11 at 14:10 ----------

Hannibal was white (Med). Carthage was run by it's Phoenician (white Med) higher class. Funny thing people can claim Phoenicians and even ancient Hebrews to have been black. Every single artwork of themselves show that they were Caucasoids.

Who's claiming anybody to be "black"? I love it how trolls favor to argue against fringe elements of Afrocentrism, instead of actually debating the genuine Africanist. By that type the majority of elite was likely Punic-Libyan anyways.

[Diwokfkq]

Perhaps they really are (genetically speaking) Caucasian just African linguistically.

Ok, well not all of them -- Haratin, Kel Tamasheq, Siwa, etc. All these are related to groupd like the Teda anyway imo.

[kertUtire]

Perhaps they really are (genetically speaking) Caucasian just African linguistically.

Ok, well not all of them -- Haratin, Kel Tamasheq, Siwa, etc. All these are related to groupd like the Teda anyway imo.

who are you talking about?

[GinaIsWild]

who are you talking about?

Coastal NA Berbers / Maghrebians. I know they're a hodge-podge of lineages though. If they feel connected to Iberia, why not? Don't Southern Europeans feel warmth for them in return?

[Klorissana]

edited out (misread timmays message)

[RBJamez]

Coastal NA Berbers / Maghrebians. I know they're a hodge-podge of lineages though. If they feel connected to Iberia, why not? Don't Southern Europeans feel warmth for them in return?

It's the internet folk.

Hell no! Maghrebians are the most discriminated group in much of Europe, did you see the Italian reaction of the Tunisian immigrants? Not hating btw.

[Patgaepx]

It's the internet folk.

Hell no! Maghrebians are the most discriminated group in much of Europe, did you see the Italian reaction of the Tunisian immigrants? Not hating btw.

That's because of their sheer numbers (largest immigrant group) + Islamophobia ..nothing racial really.

[zueqhbyhp]

And once again, Egypt and Kush never conquered areas of the Middle East.

Sure.

Could you back up that information? Come to think of it, there is only putative evidence on record:

Whenever he encountered a courageous enemy who fought valiently for freedom, he erected pillars on the spot inscribed with his own name and country, and a sentence to indicate that by the might of his armed forces he had won the victory; if, however, a town fell easily into his hands without a struggle he made an addition to the inscription on the pillar -- for not only did he record the same facts as before, but added the picture of a woman's genitals, meaning to show that the people of that town were no braver than women. ...

Most of the memorial pillars which King Sesostris erected in conquered countries have disappeared, but I have seen some myself in Palestin, with the inscription I mentioned and the drawing of a woman's genitals. In Ionia also there are two images of Sesostris cut on rock, one on the road from Ephesus to Phocaea, the other between Sardis and Smyrna; in each case, the carved figure is nearly seven feet high and represents a man with a spear in his right hand and a bow in his left, and the rest of his equipment to match -- partly Egyptian partly Ethiopian. Across the breast from shoulder to shoulder runs an inscription, cut in the Egyptian sacred script: by the strenght of my shoulders I won this land. - Ancient Historian Herodotus

This (purely historiography) is not my ideal type of source for a claim, though. I'd prefer an actual monument testimony signifying genitals still existed.

(:

[bribiaLaubysdggf]

Sure.



Come to think of it, there is only putative evidence on record:



- Ancient Historian Herodotus

This (purely historiography) is not my ideal type of source for a claim, though. I'd prefer an actual monument testimony signifying genitals still existed.

(:

Thank you for your "evidence" from a Hellenic writer who lived some 2000 years after the death of King Sesostris.

Do you call that Egypt influencing the Middle East? There was a continual flow for centuries and even millenias from the Middle East to Egypt, while there was no such flow from Egypt to the Middle East. Egyptians even speak a Semitic language today.

[Nifoziyfar]

Thank you for your "evidence" from a Hellenic writer who lived some 2000 years after the death of King Sesostris.

Right.

And you're welcome.

The Middle East influenced Egypt and Kush ever since Assyria conquered Egypt.

There was a continual flow for centuries and even millenias from the Middle East to Egypt, while there was no such flow from Egypt to the Middle East. Egyptians even speak a Semitic language today. Truth be told, no disagreement with that. The end of the Pharaohnic era was the end of Egyptian extra-Egypt influence.

[VtLe67WR]

Hannibal was born to a noble family of the Barca. Definitely were of Phoenician origin (i.e Syrian or Lebanese) . His mother is unknown but could have been Iberian (because of his father journeys in the peninsula) or Berber (local origin).

[MilenaMKB]

Above's from wikipedia (the map) -- not a espousal that wiki's a reliable source, just a show of how well know Egyptian influence is to have been -- prior to the fall of the Pharaohs.

[12Jasoumemoobia]

The ancient Mesopotamian and Levantine (Fertile Crescent) civilizations arose much earlier than ancient Egypt and Assyria conquered and destroyed Egypt. Ancient Egypt was a significant historical civilization however it's vastly overshadowed by the ancient Fertile Crescent civilizations and their lasting influence is far greater than Egypt's. Anyone that denies that is ignorant of history, just go ahead and confirm it.

[Pipindula]

That's because of their sheer numbers (largest immigrant group) + Islamophobia ..nothing racial really.

I think it's that... but the fact that they're brown people doesn't help either. Even then, my statement stands... Southern Europeans don't and have never considered North Africans "brothers".

---------- Post added 2011-08-11 at 17:39 ----------

Thank you for your "evidence" from a Hellenic writer who lived some 2000 years after the death of King Sesostris.

Do you call that Egypt influencing the Middle East? There was a continual flow for centuries and even millenias from the Middle East to Egypt, while there was no such flow from Egypt to the Middle East. Egyptians even speak a Semitic language today.

and Middle Easterners speak Semitic languages.

---------- Post added 2011-08-11 at 17:45 ----------

The ancient Mesopotamian and Levantine (Fertile Crescent) civilizations arose much earlier than ancient Egypt and Assyria conquered and destroyed Egypt. Ancient Egypt was a significant historical civilization however it's vastly overshadowed by the ancient Fertile Crescent civilizations and their lasting influence is far greater than Egypt's. Anyone that denies that is ignorant of history, just go ahead and confirm it.

Urban developed earlier in Mesopotamia is modern day Iraq, but Egypt was the first state... the first monarchy was in Nubia. No reason to bring up the Levant, civilization development in that region isn't as old in comparison to it's neighbors. The Levant's earliest contribution to human civilization was the Near Eastern Neolithic... which was the product of a mixed society of African immigrants and local peoples. And I have disagree, Egypt's influence on the world is much more greater than that of Sumer or Assyria, not that it really mattered.

Assyria conquered an already wounded Egypt, and then lost it.

[fajerdoksdsaaker]

The ancient Mesopotamian and Levantine (Fertile Crescent) civilizations arose much earlier than ancient Egypt and Assyria conquered and destroyed Egypt. Ancient Egypt was a significant historical civilization however it's vastly overshadowed by the ancient Fertile Crescent civilizations and their lasting influence is far greater than Egypt's. Anyone that denies that is ignorant of history, just go ahead and confirm it.

Those Aframs over-idealize Egypt and consider it as their "Black mother"...

---------- Post added 2011-08-11 at 17:51 ----------

Even then, my statement stands... Southern Europeans don't and have never considered North Africans "brothers".

Any brotherhood stuff is usually a myth . Anyway all genetic studies you can read agree that despite their geographical position , Berbers are mainly West Eurasian by ancestry. You're closed in your own box , Berbers are still Africans since their presence is old enough in the continent and the term "Africa" itself is Berber.

[Sierabiera]

Do you call that Egypt influencing the Middle East? There was a continual flow for centuries and even millenias from the Middle East to Egypt, while there was no such flow from Egypt to the Middle East.

Actually there was...

The expansion of Afrasan into the Middle East was via Egypt
The expansion of Afrasan speaking people into the Middle East was via Egypt; this movement of people led to the events that preceded the Neolithic revolution.
The expansion of African admixture and most importantly E1b1b and M1 into the Middle East was via Egypt
The origin of most of the worlds written scripts (including much of the Middle East) is in Egypt
The conquest of the Levant by Egypt
etc.