[AmericaAirline 111]

Do white Australians call aboriginals "black"?
I wonder because Native Australians overlap phenotypically
with blacks somewhat...

[24MurinivaMak]

Do white Australians call aboriginals "black"?

Nowadays not as much (besides the ignorant), particularly by the more educated who can look past skin colour and not deem everyone non-White as Black. Historically in the past they were refered to as a Black though.

I wonder because Native Australians overlap phenotypically
with blacks somewhat... Not at all. If you live here, you might even find you can pick out someone with even just an Aboriginal grandparent. They have a very distinctive look which you cannot find in Africa or even Oceania. Very pronounced brow ridges. If one wants to draw parallels between them and South Indians, say Dalits, maybe i can see a very vague similiarity, otherwise certainly not with Africans.

[_tppga_]

1)Well it depends. Some aboriginal people consider themselves black, historically yes even in the 70's they were considered black, Even had a Panther inspired movement.

2)As far as their phenotype it can most definitely be found in Africa, part of why they were called black in the first place was their similarity to other people who were called black. Madagascar, to Nigeria you can find people who look Native Australian.

3)Lastly, why are people acting as if there is something definitely black about africans Native Australians are no more/ or less black than Africans. its a social term there isn't anything that makes Africans definitely black.

[occafeVes]

Black and White are colonial terminologies. Australia was once controlled by the English. Yes, they would be considered black. Black does not always equate with AA but its often associated.

[PristisoliTer]

Some Australians do refer to them as 'black'. But then again, the term 'black' is not scientifically correct, because its very definition differs between various continents/countries/cultures.

I don't think that phenotypically Australian Aborigines are much closer to 'black' Negroids than albino Negroids are to 'white' Caucasoids.

[Optosypoeds]

1)Well it depends. Some aboriginal people consider themselves black, historically yes even in the 70's they were considered black, Even had a Panther inspired movement.

2)As far as their phenotype it can most definitely be found in Africa, part of why they were called black in the first place was their similarity to other people who were called black. Madagascar, to Nigeria you can find people who look Native Australian.

3)Lastly, why are people acting as if there is something definitely black about africans Native Australians are no more/ or less black than Africans. its a social term there isn't anything that makes Africans definitely black.

They may be called black because they're dark, but other than dark skin they don't really resemble Africans in general. Maybe you can find individual Africans who resemble individual Aborigines, but they have some significant differences in their phenotype. But I can see some vague similarity with some of the Mbutid influenced people (Although from a quick glance they seem more like Melanesians in their looks, imho). Any similarity is otherwise very vague, imho.

If they're considered Black due to dark skin, then all people with really darks skin can be called "black" - and that also means that any light skinned black aren't black, if such a literal interpretation of the term is used.

[Pmeidstc]

They may be called black because they're dark, but other than dark skin they don't really resemble Africans in general. Maybe you can find individual Africans who resemble individual Aborigines, but they have some significant differences in their phenotype. But I can see some vague similarity with some of the Mbutid influenced people (Although from a quick glance they seem more like Melanesians in their looks, imho). Any similarity is otherwise very vague, imho.

If they're considered Black due to dark skin, then all people with really darks skin can be called "black" - and that also means that any light skinned black aren't black, if such a literal interpretation of the term is used.

"They may be called black because they're dark,"

What other reason was any group on earth designated as black besides skin color? It's not like theres some other intrinsic characteristic.

The albino reference is kind of inaccurate. Aborigines as a whole, other than their current location, fit nicely with several African populations. Melanesians, from Papua New Guinea got the name of their country due to their resemblance to specific continental Africans. Africa is a CONTINENT of mostly bronwn-ish people with varying features; the fact that many aborigines and Melanesians look like many Africans is not surprising.

"If they're considered Black due to dark skin, then all people with really darks skin can be called "black" - and that also means that any light skinned black aren't black, if such a literal interpretation of the term is used."

The reason light skinned " black" people were/are still called "black," was/is their affinity with other designated, "black," dark people, almost always through descent. You don't ever see a blonde fair blue eyed swede being called black.

[Lyikmcmb]

"They may be called black because they're dark,"

What other reason was any group on earth designated as black besides skin color? It's not like theres some other intrinsic characteristic.

It has an obvious historical reason. I won't waste your time with words. You know it already.

You don't ever see a blonde fair blue eyed swede being called black.

No, so what. That sure doesn't mean that I can't call a very light "African descended person" white, doesn't it? It's either or.

The albino reference is kind of inaccurate. Aborigines as a whole, other than their current location, fit nicely with several African populations. Melanesians, from Papua New Guinea got the name of their country due to their resemblance to specific continental Africans. Africa is a CONTINENT of mostly bronwn-ish people with varying features; the fact that many aborigines and Melanesians look like many Africans is not surprising.

"If they're considered Black due to dark skin, then all people with really darks skin can be called "black" - and that also means that any light skinned black aren't black, if such a literal interpretation of the term is used."

The reason light skinned " black" people were/are still called "black," was/is their affinity with other designated, "black," dark people, almost always through descent.

No, if you're dark, then you're black, if you're not, you're white. It's as appropriate as anything else. Melanesian and Australians have the colour in common with Africans, and nothing else, really. They're not related in any particular way. They never even knew of each others existence. So why is it different with people with "affinity with other designated". Why is there a difference in this case, but not in all other cases?

And Aborigines have been influenced by civil rights movements and Aframs too, again there's obvious historical reasons for that, and the situation of Aborigines makes that a somewhat logical step.

(I don’t know why you brought albinos into this, totally irrelevant)

[Aozenee]

No, so what. That sure doesn't mean that I can't call a very light "African descended person" white, doesn't it? It's either or. So true, and that is part of the Base of the European race concept. Now on to more complex matters.

No, if you're dark, then you're black, if you're not, you're white. It's as appropriate as anything else. Melanesian and Australians have the colour in common with Africans, and nothing else, really. They're not related in any particular way. They never even knew of each others existence. So why is it different with people with "affinity with other designated". Why is there a difference in this case, but not in all other cases? Last I checked Beyonce, Tyra Banks, Adaeze Igwe, Maryam Abacha, Collin Powell, Oguchi Onyewu, All Are black, yet none of them are dark. Melanesians and Native Australians have their Beautiful distinctions , however the STRONG overlap with many African and recently descendant of (Last 1000 yrs), is quite obvious. How much more did Continental Africans know of the Afro-American Experience? Negritos are literally Little blacks, What was the Affinity they had with the African-American community? Very silly huh? see all of these Black People don't necessarily have close affinities to each other, A black Madagascan doesn't necessarily have any close affinity to an African American, and Afro-Americans generally aren't of Madagascan descent What affinity between the two made them both black besides designation.

AFRICAN


MELANESIAN


AFRICAN


MELANESIAN


AFRICAN


MELANESIAN


AFRICAN


MELANESIAN


AFRICAN


MELANESIAN



And Aborigines have been influenced by civil rights movements and Aframs too, again there's obvious historical reasons for that, and the situation of Aborigines makes that a somewhat logical step. Including the fact that they were designated black peoples half way around the world experiencing much of the same things other designated blacks were experiencing.

(I don’t know why you brought albinos into this, totally irrelevant) Well Albinos have a skin color or lack of pigment, on this topic you referred to skin color, and they are still black, black is more than skin deep, and very appearance based all at the same time.

[Scfdglkn]

MELANESIAN

That Melanesian is incredibly beautiful. Who is she?

[Beauseaccerce]

That Melanesian is incredibly beautiful. Who is she?

Her name is Chelina Manuhutu. She's half Dutch half Indonesian.

[retTreftowhexm]

It is very common in Australia to call people "black fellas" or "white fellas" and I don't see anything derogatory in it either way.


But, as I see it, - Australian Aboriginal people have more in common with other First Nations peoples than say African Americans.

For example when The National Congress of Australia’s First People's meeting was held this year, the Executive Director of The National Congress of American Indians was there to give the keynote address.

[wCYvMKAc]

It is very common in Australia to call people "black fellas" or "white fellas" and I don't see anything derogatory in it either way.


But, as I see it, - Australian Aboriginal people have more in common with other First Nations peoples than say African Americans.

For example when The National Congress of Australia’s First People's meeting was held this year, the Executive Director of The National Congress of American Indians was there to give the keynote address.

So true

[EnvellFen]

So true, and that is part of the Base of the European race concept. Now on to more complex matters.



Last I checked Beyonce, Tyra Banks, Adaeze Igwe, Maryam Abacha, Collin Powell, Oguchi Onyewu, All Are black, yet none of them are dark. Melanesians and Native Australians have their Beautiful distinctions , however the STRONG overlap with many African and recently descendant of (Last 1000 yrs), is quite obvious. How much more did Continental Africans know of the Afro-American Experience? Negritos are literally Little blacks, What was the Affinity they had with the African-American community? Very silly huh? see all of these Black People don't necessarily have close affinities to each other, A black Madagascan doesn't necessarily have any close affinity to an African American, and Afro-Americans generally aren't of Madagascan descent What affinity between the two made them both black besides designation.

AFRICAN


MELANESIAN


AFRICAN


MELANESIAN


AFRICAN


MELANESIAN


AFRICAN


MELANESIAN


AFRICAN


MELANESIAN





Including the fact that they were designated black peoples half way around the world experiencing much of the same things other designated blacks were experiencing.



Well Albinos have a skin color or lack of pigment, on this topic you referred to skin color, and they are still black, black is more than skin deep, and very appearance based all at the same time.

stupid argument, whats the point in using blacks that are mixed with white? those people dont represent what black people look like, if you compare pure australian aborigines with pure black africans, then there is barely any similarity beyond the skin color.

[cabonuserollyo]

That's one good looking Melanesian right there.

Dominicanboy - that pretty much what I say, if you call those Americans Black, then you use another definition than one based on colour. I would even go so far as to call Albinos white, if colour is the sole definition of who is "Black" and who isn't. Now, I don't like those racial labels at all, but I don't agree that you can say that Melanesians and Australians are "Black" and state that skin colour/appearance ONLY is the reason why they are black, and then also include lighter people as black. Unless you're using a different definition for your world wide inclusive use of Black, and another cultural definition altogether for people in the USA, or other diaspora. If you use the word "black" literally, then it's not a racial term, but just a word which describes someone who looks black-ish. That would include a very tanned Khmer person too, in some cases, or some South Indians. Who sometimes magically would turn non-black if they stayed indoors for some time!

Ps. obviously, locally people can use the term "black" fro aborigines, and "white" for Anglos, just like Russians can use the word "black" for Caucasians, and "white" for themselves.

[aburva.org]

stupid argument, whats the point in using blacks that are mixed with white? those people dont represent what black people look like, if you compare pure australian aborigines with pure black africans, then there is barely any similarity beyond the skin color.

I doubt you've ever been to Africa, or Are African. Now Im going to enlighten you a bit. ALL the Africans in those pictures are 100% African, and not mixed. Please educate yourself before you speak. Ethiopia Nigeria (Igbo) Nigeria (Hausa), Nigeria (Fulani) are all the ethnic groups used ALL full blooded Common AFRICANS. You have got to be kidding me

---------- Post added 2011-08-09 at 23:41 ----------

Are you not listening? Someone from that part of the world even just confirmed what ive been saying.

I don't agree that you can say that Melanesians and Australians are "Black" and state that skin colour/appearance ONLY is the reason why they are black, and then also include lighter people as black. I'm sorry you feel that way, but they have already been defined as black like African American have been. Light skinned Melanesians who are descendants of Black Melanesians are also often enough Referred to as black, or mixed, same as the U.S. So you can't agree that Melanesians are black (even though they are), but you Can agree that African Americans are black, why?

If you use the word "black" literally, then it's not a racial term, but just a word which describes someone who looks black-ish. What? Define what black is as a racial term please, What is it?

That would include a very tanned Khmer person too, in some cases, or some South Indians A little history, India was colonized by the British. They were divided and put into race categories based on their appearance (sound familiar?) Dark skinned Indians WERE classified as black. If India had never gained independence, guess what? They would have been a part of the socially designated "black" peoples on earth.

Unless you're using a different definition for your world wide inclusive use of Black, and another cultural definition altogether for people in the USA, or other diaspora Are you serious? You would call a Somali black and Will Smith black. Do these two have very much in common culturally? Do you think all black people have the same culture, or history?

obviously, locally people can use the term "black" fro aborigines, and "white" for Anglos, just like Russians can use the word "black" for Caucasians, and "white" for
themselve s

Locally? Lol, Where were African-Americans defined as black, in Asia? Lol, they were defined as such Locally, by Europeans and the ideology of that definition spread. Melanesians, even outside of Melanesia will be socially seen/classified as "black." Tanned white people will not Globally be perceived that way.

[JohnTruels]

I doubt you've ever been to Africa, or Are African. Now Im going to enlighten you a bit. ALL the Africans in those pictures are 100% African, and not mixed. Please educate yourself before you speak. Ethiopia Nigeria (Igbo) Nigeria (Hausa), Nigeria (Fulani) are all the ethnic groups used ALL full blooded Common AFRICANS. You have got to be kidding me

---------- Post added 2011-08-09 at 23:41 ----------

Are you not listening? Someone from that part of the world even just confirmed what ive been saying.



I'm sorry you feel that way, but they have already been defined as black like African American have been. Light skinned Melanesians who are descendants of Black Melanesians are also often enough Referred to as black, or mixed, same as the U.S. So you can't agree that Melanesians are black (even though they are), but you Can agree that African Americans are black, why?



What? Define what black is as a racial term please, What is it?



A little history, India was colonized by the British. They were divided and put into race categories based on their appearance (sound familiar?) Dark skinned Indians WERE classified as black. If India had never gained independence, guess what? They would have been a part of the socially designated "black" peoples on earth.



Are you serious? You would call a Somali black and Will Smith black. Do these two have very much in common culturally? Do you think all black people have the same culture, or history?

s

Locally? Lol, Where were African-Americans defined as black, in Asia? Lol, they were defined as such Locally, by Europeans and the ideology of that definition spread. Melanesians, even outside of Melanesia will be socially seen/classified as "black." Tanned white people will not Globally be perceived that way.

nope, youre wrong, that first african woman is definitely mixed, she is from the horn, and horners/east africans are mixed with caucasoids since prehistoric times.
and the fulani came from east africa originally too so they are admixed as well.
so pretty much none of the "blacks" you posted where pure, they where mixed.

deal with it.

[accelieda]

nope, youre wrong, that first african woman is definitely mixed, she is from the horn, and horners/east africans are mixed with caucasoids since prehistoric times.
and the fulani came from east africa originally too so they are admixed as well.
so pretty much none of the "blacks" you posted where pure, they where mixed.

deal with it.

Belonging to an ethnic group, or population that posses genetic markers commonly found in another ethnicity/population does not equal admixture. The Hausa share R1b with western Europeans such as Spaniards, at a high frequency; that my friend does not make the Hausa mixed with Spaniards, or Spaniards mixed with Hausa.

1) What the hell is a caucasoid? Eugenics is dead let's move on please

2) Present irrefutable scientifically agreeable/standardized proof of such mixture horners have with non-horners.

3) Last I checked, the origin of the Fulani genetically, culturally and linguistically is in West Africa. (happy to provide peer reviewed historically accurate sources upon request)

It appears you haven't done any research, instead you're simply just regurgitating stereotypes and racist ideologies. Africa is a CONTINENT, There is NO reason why everyone should look the same. You seem to be quite ignorant on this topic of African history, or Africans beyond Animal Planet specials, National Geo, Hollywood & Feed The Children ads. It's you who needs to "deal with it" (your flaming ignorance).

Most Africans don't look like wesley Snipes, or Djimon Honsou, or Alek Wek. That limited ideology misrepresents them as constant, sole and majority representatives for Africans. All you are doing is reinforcing the Ignorance society has fed you.

Ps: Alek Wek, Djimon, and Wesley's, features are not wrong, or bad, however they have been demonized by society and then further more inaccurately used as representative of all of Africa.

[Gooracouppy]

Are you not listening? Someone from that part of the world even just confirmed what ive been saying.

I can't see why I should trust a random stranger on the net, when I can just ask my Aboriginal relatives?

I'm sorry you feel that way, but they have already been defined as black like African American have been. Light skinned Melanesians who are descendants of Black Melanesians are also often enough Referred to as black, or mixed, same as the U.S. So you can't agree that Melanesians are black (even though they are), but you Can agree that African Americans are black, why?

Yes, locally, based on derogatory labelling by the colonists. And I don't care if African Americans are "Black" so I never said that "they are Black".

What? Define what black is as a racial term please, What is it?

In this context, in order to be a valid global "category", it has to be applied to people who are the same in some way, such as shared origin, culture or whatever you can come up with. Otherwise it is just a colour. I don't consider "Black" a valid racial term in any case.

Those kind of labels only have any real usefulness for the diaspora, otherwise ethnicity and nationality is all the label you'll ever need. This applies to "white" too. In some cases it is the label used by outsiders for the locals - usually meant as a derogatory term, or just a descriptive, relative term.

A little history, India was colonized by the British. They were divided and put into race categories based on their appearance (sound familiar?) Dark skinned Indians WERE classified as black. If India had never gained independence, guess what? They would have been a part of the socially designated "black" peoples on earth.

Se above.

Are you serious? You would call a Somali black and Will Smith black. Do these two have very much in common culturally? Do you think all black people have the same culture, or history?

Would "I"? No, I call Somalia people Somalis, period! In fact, most people here can recognise Somalis just because they're relatively common. If I didn't know where they were from, maybe I would think of them as African (although I could also just not know). If I didn't know of their existence, I would probably mistakenly presume that a Melanesian was Africans, if I met one, but that would just be due to ignorance. If I went to somewhere in Melanesia, I would obviously know that the people I met, who may look dark and superficially similar to Africans, were Melanesians and not African. Again, context, context and context.

Locally? Lol, Where were African-Americans defined as black, in Asia? Lol, they were defined as such Locally, by Europeans and the ideology of that definition spread. Melanesians, even outside of Melanesia will be socially seen/classified as "black." Tanned white people will not Globally be perceived that way.

Maybe they will. At first glance, some people will probably call them Black, but don't think that American/English labels are especially valid globally. It all depends on what you mean by the label you use, so it also depends on context. The "white" people who are considered Black are not especially tanned, but still the label "black" is used. There's no "global perception" of people, but you're trying to create one, it seems.

[xanonlinexan]

What are you trying to pull Dominicanboy ?