[NKUDirectory]

Its a bit of contradiction- restore 'family values'- by polygamy. What kind of 'family values' are you meaning?

Believe me, I wasn't serious before when I supported sean's proposals before.

But may I be a bit provokative and could we imagine a situation: mother A and father B are married but their marriage has become a bouring routine, characters and interests of A and B are different, "enjoyment" is rare/non-existing, etc and that life doesn't satisfy neither A nor B. But yet, A and B have common children/child and for the children A and B are and remain parents. Possible "correct" and acceptable solution according to European cultural standards seems to be a divorce but we should take into consideration that a divorce is always a big shock for the kids.

Seriously, I am not a supporter of poligamy but I mean that one of the most important family values is to grow up children and to enable for the children to live in a common a familywith mother and father.

[uranbigis]

Polygamy will do the opposite.
I meant Poligamy will not restore family values, but diminish them.

[zenihan]

Study Suggests Polygamy May Lead To A Longer Life:

Study Suggests Polygamy May Lead To A Longer Life

Posted on: Tuesday, 19 August 2008, 15:25 CDT

New research suggests that men from polygamous cultures outlive those from monogamous ones.

Virpi Lummaa, an ecologist at the University of Sheffield, suggested that after accounting for socioeconomic differences, men aged over 60 from 140 countries that practice polygamy to varying degrees lived on average 12% longer than men from 49 mostly monogamous nations.

The research looks to solve the long-standing puzzle of life expectancy in human biology.

A phenomenon called the grandmother effect seeks to explain why women are able to live so long after the menopause—unlike nearly all other animals.

Lummaa says for every 10 years a woman survives past the menopause, she gains two additional grandchildren. It seems that doting on and spoiling grandchildren aids their survival, as well as furthering some of their grandmother’s genes.

By contrast, men can reproduce well into their 60s and even 70s and 80s, leading most researchers to assume this explained their longevity.

However, Lummaa and colleague Andy Russell wondered whether other factors explained the long lifespan of men, such as a grandfather effect.

The team tested this possibility by analyzing church-gathered records for 25,000 Finns from the 18th and 19th centuries, when people tended to move little, no one practiced contraception and the Lutheran Church enforced monogamy.

During this era, only widowed men were allowed to remarry, and if they had children with their new wife, they fathered more kids, on average, than men who married once.

“Ultimately, remarried men don’t end up with any more grandchildren. If anything the presence of a grandfather was associated with decreased survival of grandchildren,” Lummaa said.

“Perhaps the children of the first mother lose out on food and resources that go to the second mother’s kids. It's kind of the Cinderella effect," Lummaa added.

A finding supported by previous research showed even fathers with only one wife provided no benefit to their grandchildren.

After ruling out the grandfather effect, Lummaa and Russell next wondered whether the constraints of human physiology explain male longevity.

They suggested that male longevity might be a consequence of biological selection for long-lived women.

The researchers then compared the lifespan of men from polygamous countries with those from monogamous nations.

The team then scored 189 countries on a monogamy scale of one to four - totally monogamous to mostly polygamous, taking into account a country's gross domestic product and average income to minimize the effect of better nutrition and healthcare in monogamous Western nations.

“Our monogamy score is a crude first stab, and we’re working to find multiple ways to assess marriage patterns,” Lummaa said. She also added that the conclusions could evaporate under further analysis.

The study suggests that if female survival is the main explanation for male longevity, then monogamous and polygamous men would live for about the same length of time.

However, it seems that fathering more kids with more wives leads to increased male longevity. Men, then, live long because they're fertile well into their grey years.

This could be both a social and genetic explanation.

Men who continue fathering kids into their 60s and 70s could take better care for their bodies because they have mouths to feed. But evolutionary forces acting over thousands of years could also select for longer-lived men in polygamous cultures.

Chris Wilson, an evolutionary anthropologist at Cornell University in Ithaca, New York, who attended the talk, said the new study is a valid hypothesis and a good prediction.

But he believes the care and attention of several wives who depend on the social status of their ageing husband could explain everything.

"It doesn't surprise me that men in those societies live longer than men in monogamous societies, where they become widowed and have nobody to care for them."

[Almolfuncomma]

Men who continue fathering kids into their 60s and 70s could take better care for their bodies because they have mouths to feed. But evolutionary forces acting over thousands of years could also select for longer-lived men in polygamous cultures. Here's a problem with that.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/09/health/09autism.html

Previous research found that the risk of autism grew with the age of the father. The new study suggested that when the father was over 40 and the mother under 30, the increased risk was especially pronounced — 59 percent greater than for younger men. What's more important, longer life for older men, or healthier children?

[d1Bc25UP]

Here's a problem with that.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/09/health/09autism.html
What's more important, longer life for older men, or healthier children?

From there:
Previous research found that the risk of autism grew with the age of the father. The new study suggested that when the father was over 40 and the mother under 30, the increased risk was especially pronounced — 59 percent greater than for younger men. Poligamous or not most men have kids after the 40, i think i will try to have kids at 45 yo.

[peveballery]

From there:


Poligamous or not most men have kids after the 40, i think i will try to have kids at 45 yo.

Hmm not sure about that. In any case I am turning 40 this year, already have two children, not planning to have anymore, and would definitely think twice about it if I thought I might be at high-risk for autistic children.

[viagra-kaufen]

Family values depend on culture. Some cultures don't have the tradition of poligamy. Therefore, I don't think poligamy would restore family values to these cultures (christian culture, for example).

[BGThomasis]

I thought society was more open to this.

Now i feel ashamed, i dont support the poligamy but i started this thread to see the views of the society.

I don't support polygamy but i think it should be legalized or be not the business of the governments.

[tooratrack]

LoL I remember seeing on TV a 75 year old Kurdish man, he had 4 wives and about 30 kids (maybe 40/don't remember), and was still "on the job" getting his action on.

Everybody seemed to be happy with the arrangement, but then again he was the richest dude in the village and actually owned the village land.

[Trissinas]

Polygamy is totally moral according to the standards of some cultures and I'm not judging it by any moral standards. I have posted before (in the male fantasies thread of all places) that I support the legal rights of polygamists as a free choice of lifestyle.

I would however recommend to anyone, whether they are monogamous or polygamous, to give serious thought to the concept of bearing children for numerous reasons, including what scientific findings there may be regarding the ages of both the mother and father and how they affect the health of the child.

Also, from a genetic and social standpoint, polygamy (along with population control measures and other things) can affect societies in ways that may not be beneficial.

In other words, don't have no shame in your game.

[Kalobbis]

'Family values' are not objective, actually, most of the time 'family values' are just a conservative talking point (IE anti gay, middle class suburban lifestyle).

[Pmeidstc]

It all depends on the people involved.

Many men are married but have a "bit on the side" and then "another bit on the other side" they usually end up having a kid (willing or unwillingly) and so that kid is to be deemed a "bastard" by certain societies and may even be frowned upon.

I think the whole concept of Multiple wives in islam was related to the so called high amount of widows left from the never ending wars. Many of the women that entered into polygamous marriages usually did so for the financial security. Also, naturally they perhaps needed to be with a man physically so rather than be with a stranger, they preferred to be with their "legal" husbands.

Personally, i couldn't accept such an arrangement. It is more the fact that i don't wish to share my husband with another woman. However, I don't think we should judge people that do wish to enter such marriages.

[JessicaLin]

'Family values' are not objective, actually, most of the time 'family values' are just a conservative talking point (IE anti gay, middle class suburban lifestyle).

This is it, family values may be of different nature, the most common it is understood in this conservative (I would prefer to name it traditional here, withouth political affiliation) model: man and woman, faitfull to each other, together untill death, bringing up children.

Divorces, homosexual partnerships and polygamy or "open marriage" I would put as something opposite to the idea of traditional 'family values', hence I cant imagine polygamy restoring it, maybe only as a side effect- some people seeing circumstances of polygamic relationships could push stronger towards traditional marriage.

As I dont object divorces and homo-pairs in the law, I wouldnt support polygamy, but maybe some day it will happen too.

---------- Post added 2011-07-11 at 19:33 ----------

But may I be a bit provokative and could we imagine a situation: mother A and father B are married but their marriage has become a bouring routine, characters and interests of A and B are different, "enjoyment" is rare/non-existing, etc and that life doesn't satisfy neither A nor B. But yet, A and B have common children/child and for the children A and B are and remain parents. Possible "correct" and acceptable solution according to European cultural standards seems to be a divorce but we should take into consideration that a divorce is always a big shock for the kids.

Seriously, I am not a supporter of poligamy but I mean that one of the most important family values is to grow up children and to enable for the children to live in a common a familywith mother and father.

If they are bored they can divorce (i dont support divorces im general), you say they may be less bored when another person would have been brought in? Hah I believe it would be quite enterntaining, however maybe not in the way they expect

---------- Post added 2011-07-11 at 19:34 ----------

I think the whole concept of Multiple wives in islam was related to the so called high amount of widows left from the never ending wars. Many of the women that entered into polygamous marriages usually did so for the financial security.

I could in a way understand this reason, but I believe its not needed anymore.

[unioneserry]

I dont think the Goverment should involve in the personal lives of the people or the morality.

so you think people should be able to have sex with dogs in public, pedophiles happyly selling video of abused little girls from thailand in shops or people masturbating in public?

all these would be "personal lives" but these are against the "average morality" of our sociaties as well as the average perception of what one can and cannot do outside his house.

the goverment should secure that average morality, and that is not facistic at all as long as it really functions in a correct way.
as long as the power of a goverment comes from the people the morality of the goverment will reflect the morality of the people thus the limitation will be automaticaly accepted by the people.
ofc not all goverments truly reflect the poppulations they govern, for example the mullahs in iran do not reflect most of the persians or their "average morality", but while they do hung people in the street that is just a minor problem infront of the actual problem which is lack of democracy.

and as an individual i am happy if the goverment does what it should do, as long as it does it correctly. if they start doing it in a wrong way i will be against the goverment.
but under no circumstance i would like to have other individuals doing things i concider as pervercies in public, if they wish to engage in activities that aren't accepted by most people they can do so inside their houses as i would if i would be in their possition.

now about the actual "polygamy" i have expirienced it personaly, not in a form of marriage but as having multiple relationships at the same time, while i do understand that under different social conditions it could work, i doubt that under the currect structures it would, as for the whole concept of solving problems i dissagree, polygamy is something different with similar or different problems to monogamy.
but it does have problems and that is as with everything else the difference between the theory and the practice.
the same sex drive that made "sex with new girls" look really nice in my head was there with 1 girl as well as with 2 girls, and i don't doubt that it would be there with 3 or 4.
i could infact give out examples for all the reasons why people cheat and show you that polygamy wouldn't change anything at all, but i think it would not be beneficial.

as for marriage, it fails because people are lieing to themselves, if people had the maturity required and the honnesty all marriages would be good.

and a nice fruitfull question for thought, lets say we have a person who is an alpha male, meaning an extremly strong person, a person who can affect and alter the people around him, if that male could make the females want something he wants, meaning if he could make 4 women wanting polygamy, would that be because they wanted it? would polygamy be really their choice? or it would be similar as locking 4 women in a basement? meaning that they never had a real chance to decide for themselves?

[offemyJuccete]

so you think people should be able to have sex with dogs in public, pedophiles happyly selling video of abused little girls from thailand in shops or people masturbating in public?

I am talking about morality of the free people when it doesn't affect others. You are comparing apples to oranges.
In the case of the dog, i find it disgusting but if he wants to do it in private it is ok with me, if he do it in public it is a different issue. In the case of the Thailand videos those people is forced to do it it is a different kind of crime not related to the moral.
Both cases affect the moral, but that was not what i mean.

I am talking about the moral of the free people without affect other peoples life.

all these would be "personal lives" but these are against the "average morality" of our sociaties as well as the average perception of what one can and cannot do outside his house.

The examples you wrote are not about personal lives. Or personal decisions.

the goverment should secure that average morality, and that is not facistic at all as long as it really functions in a correct way.

No, government should not. It sounds like 1984.

as long as the power of a goverment comes from the people the morality of the goverment will reflect the morality of the people thus the limitation will be automaticaly accepted by the people.
ofc not all goverments truly reflect the poppulations they govern, for example the mullahs in iran do not reflect most of the persians or their "average morality", but while they do hung people in the street that is just a minor problem infront of the actual problem which is lack of democracy.

Hittler was elected in a Democracy, do you support him.
Most time the decision of the government came from religious lobbies.

and as an individual i am happy if the goverment does what it should do, as long as it does it correctly. if they start doing it in a wrong way i will be against the goverment.

I think the govement should care about some aspects of the economy and the security of the citizens with respect of the property. If some guy wants to marry 5 women, a dog or a tree, his business.
I wont pay taxes to have the goverment doing what gossip shows do.

and a nice fruitfull question for thought, lets say we have a person who is an alpha male, meaning an extremly strong person, a person who can affect and alter the people around him, if that male could make the females want something he wants, meaning if he could make 4 women wanting polygamy, would that be because they wanted it? would polygamy be really their choice? or it would be similar as locking 4 women in a basement? meaning that they never had a real chance to decide for themselves?

1) I would never be polygamist and i have never cheated any girl.
2) I will tell you about a friend i have, he travels 6 moths of the years, he have two families in different places, in the beginning their wives didnt know anything about it, now they know and i think they prefer to share the guy rather to die alone.
3) If some rich old guy choses to marry 5 or six young poor girls, i think that is a good idea. Because the society wont have to pay welfare for they and there are less chances of the girls having kids with other poor guy and creating more poor people.

I repeat i am not into polygamy, i often fall in love with jealous authoritarian girls. But i do support the polygamy, also i feel ashamed about the fact that if a woman want to throw herself to the masses it is ok because she is probably a feminist, if a guy wants to engage in the responsibility of having 4 wives he is considered a immoral and a perv. Kim Kardashian who is 30 dated Justin Biber who was 17 yo, it seem fine to the society, if a mormon marry a 17 yo girl he could face prison.
It is very bad to be a man in times like this.

[kazinopartnerkae]

3) If some rich old guy choses to marry 5 or six young poor girls, i think that is a good idea. Because the society wont have to pay welfare for they and there are less chances of the girls having kids with other poor guy and creating more poor people.
.

its simple, instead of sharing his dick he could share some mhuny!!!

[ptmQqoxw]

What about some rich Russian older man taking care for a younger poor girl and her mother at the same time. It does happen actually, I've seen it once. Russia has more women than men.

[fissasste]

What about some rich Russian older man taking care for a younger poor girl and her mother at the same time. It does happen actually, I've seen it once. Russia has more women than men.

Russia has some more women mainly cause an average russian male dies prematurely having drunk 1 million litres of spirits while women care more of their health, anyway, it makes "available widows" of average age of 60, i dont mind polygamy for people of this age, above 60- go ahead.

[gechaheritt]

Russia has some more women mainly cause an average russian male dies prematurely having drunk 1 million litres of spirits while women care more of their health, anyway, it makes "available widows" of average age of 60, i dont mind polygamy for people of this age, above 60- go ahead.

So it mainly goes for older people there. Also, I think army service also is one of the causes there. Russian army is like Hell on Earth.
Of course, Russian culture is also very macho. You cannot escape from having to drink along when going to parties, and drink a lot as well. If you don't drink with your buddies, you're not considered a real man. Group dynamism makes men destroy themselves and everyone wants to be part of society.

[plalleste]

So it mainly goes for older people there. Also, I think army service also is one of the causes there. Russian army is like Hell on Earth.
Of course, Russian culture is also very macho. You cannot escape from having to drink along when going to parties, and drink a lot as well. If you don't drink with your buddies, you're not considered a real man. Group dynamism makes men destroy themselves.

yes.
i dont know how much army influences it, but I watched a while ago a raport on russia and it wash shocking that predicted life expectance for women is like not much behind the western world while for men its more similar to poor african countries and they blamed it mainly on alcohol and cigarettes. Not only quantities, but as well drinking strong/illegal spirits, and getting absolutely wasted, which as you say, is a part of culture- its not only "you have to drink with us" but it is as well" you have to have a blackout with us",its quite popular 'culture' in other countries too, eg among some people in Poland I have seen it myself often, however some Russians seem to have taken it to a cosmic level.
plus, in Russia, I have heard, in the province it is acceptable to be drunk at work, at least in some professions, so people dont have that many "red lights" as in other countries where you have to sober up in the morning.