[jeraveike]

Hi everyone so I was thinking how on DNA tests when they refer to African they mean SSA, but why is only that small part of Africa considered as 'Áfrican' ? That's what I don't understand.

So i.e. if I get a DNA test and it turns out I'm 12% SSA and i.e. 2% east African (let's say Polako re-runs the test), they only consider the 12% as 'black''? It makes no sense to me to be honest.

[nancywind]

In fact Sub-Saharans have one of the highest genetic diversity amongst Humans. Thus "SSA" (West-African) is disctinct from "East African". However I don't know because I thought e-african was included into the SSA category as well ; so are you sure?

[CreativeAcrobate]

Theres an actual continum that is ancienet. East AFricans are not separate from other Africans per se. Atleast in terms of superficial blackness. If you have lets say 2% East African from Polako or Mcdonald this is using Masai reference samples, and the Masai are one of the oldest and blackest people in Africa, they are very dark skinned and have tight hair. But are distinct enough genetically to make a difference in the African scores of ethiopians when they are included or excluded. You for example having East African is not direct but rather through the west African. So lets say 3k Years ago a band of Proto-Masai people left East africa and ended up in chad, and then 1k later ended up in Senegal or North Nigeria. This is how u would have gotten your "masai" by a rather indirect source. There are quite a few west africans with east african migration stories while some are localized. Son in this DNA test id' suggest you combined the east and west african as "black" vs separating them. But when you are doing intra-african analysis on yourself u wana separate em to get an idea of what your African ancestry is composed of. The only ones that are tricky are Mozabites because they have elements presetn in both south euroepans from admixture with them as well as Admixture with sub-saharan africans, so even "north african" scores from mcdonald have significant sub-saharan so some of that score is real sub-saharan, some is real south european and some is real north african.

[fuslssdfaa]

Theres an actual continum that is ancienet. East AFricans are not separate from other Africans per se. Atleast in terms of superficial blackness. If you have lets say 2% East African from Polako or Mcdonald this is using Masai reference samples, and the Masai are one of the oldest and blackest people in Africa, they are very dark skinned and have tight hair. But are distinct enough genetically to make a difference in the African scores of ethiopians when they are included or excluded. You for example having East African is not direct but rather through the west African. So lets say 3k Years ago a band of Proto-Masai people left East africa and ended up in chad, and then 1k later ended up in Senegal or North Nigeria. This is how u would have gotten your "masai" by a rather indirect source. There are quite a few west africans with east african migration stories while some are localized. Son in this DNA test id' suggest you combined the east and west african as "black" vs separating them. But when you are doing intra-african analysis on yourself u wana separate em to get an idea of what your African ancestry is composed of. The only ones that are tricky are Mozabites because they have elements presetn in both south euroepans from admixture with them as well as Admixture with sub-saharan africans, so even "north african" scores from mcdonald have significant sub-saharan so some of that score is real sub-saharan, some is real south european and some is real north african.

Yes but what I mean is. Usually with DNA tests, when they refer to African, they refer to SSA. The rest of Africa counts as well so why do they only take SSA into account and not test i.e. for East Africa as well? If you're only going to test SSA, then the person might not get a correct image of their DNA. And I also don't understand why it seems they consider SSA as 'the real African/black', if I can put it that way. At least that is how it has come across to me.

---------- Post added 2011-03-19 at 18:23 ----------

In fact Sub-Saharans have one of the highest genetic diversity amongst Humans. Thus "SSA" (West-African) is disctinct from "East African". However I don't know because I thought e-african was included into the SSA category as well ; so are you sure?

I don't think they are on DNA tests.

[ORDERCHEAPVIAGRASOFTWARE]

Yes but what I mean is. Usually with DNA tests, when they refer to African, they refer to SSA. The rest of Africa counts as well so why do they only take SSA into account and not test i.e. for East Africa as well? If you're only going to test SSA, then the person might not get a correct image of their DNA. And I also don't understand why it seems they consider SSA as 'the real African/black', if I can put it that way. At least that is how it has come across to me.

Well in the case of 23andme they are onyl using Yoruba's so even Yoruba is wrong for AFrican, as Bantu Africans and Segalese are distinct enough to change your score. Masai as well. Now as far as Polako and Mcdonald they do combine Masai (East African) and the rest of the Sub-saharan African groups into "African". So when thye give you an African score thats usually what it is, unless otherwise specified when they do intra-african runs, where they include East Africa, Biaka pygmies, etc.

[nicegirlflor]

Well in the case of 23andme they are onyl using Yoruba's so even Yoruba is wrong for AFrican, as Bantu Africans and Segalese are distinct enough to change your score. Masai as well. Now as far as Polako and Mcdonald they do combine Masai (East African) and the rest of the Sub-saharan African groups into "African". So when thye give you an African score thats usually what it is, unless otherwise specified when they do intra-african runs, where they include East Africa, Biaka pygmies, etc.

Thanks Lemba! But what I also mean is, I don't mean to pry but why does it seem like people only consider SSA as ''African''? (at least when it comes to DNA) Or am I the only one who got that vibe?

[Tibaveriafark]

Are you talking about 23andMe? Well, that's because they only use Nigerians. They are a bit Eurocentric anyway.

It's also much easier for them to genetically differentiate West, Central and South African from European segments than East or North African segments from European ones.

[Quick$bux]

Thanks Lemba! But what I also mean is, I don't mean to pry but why does it seem like people only consider SSA as ''African''? (at least when it comes to DNA) Or am I the only one who got that vibe?

OH yes atleast when you talk about North-africans, but East Africans are definetly included with other Sub-saharans. Now North Africans are trickier because they have less recenet admixture from sub-saharan africans. Although its still noteable but not as high as other people. Some North-Africans are highly sub-shaaran while some have much less, but pretty much all North-Africans have some, sometimes its recent from Slave trade and ALOT Of times its ancient from proto-ethiopian sub-saharan peoples who populated north-africa. or other unkown migrations. So due to the isolation of North-Africa and it being a more "mixed" region , in the sense it has more west-eurasian admixture it is categorized differently in dna, where the individuals with the most west asian input are less "sub-saharan" but this is all changing specially with the inclusion of East African samples to run against north africans you can see they have east african admixture as well as west asian.

[Gerribase]

Thanks Lemba that clears up a lot! Just making sure, so 23andme just doesn't test north and east Africa, the rest is included? Well at least that =)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-Saharan_Africa

[RozzyLiu]

Thanks Lemba! But what I also mean is, I don't mean to pry but why does it seem like people only consider SSA as ''African''? (at least when it comes to DNA) Or am I the only one who got that vibe?

DNA tests don't use unspecific word such as "African" , because of the too high genetic diversity. just like you are 80% West-Eurasian 25% African you happen to fall in the Mozabite cluster on 23andme x)

[Creelaleps]

Esther, there very much is a political aspect to the grouping of peoples. We are lead to believe it is purely scientific but it is in fact science as interpreted through researchers who have a historic bias. Some more so than others. There is no magic wall separating Sub-Saharan Africa from the rest of Africa. And there has always been normal intra-continental interaction between groups in Africa just as on every other continent.

[VarenHokalos]

Esther, there very much is a political aspect to the grouping of peoples. We are lead to believe it is purely scientific but it is in fact science as interpreted through researchers who have a historic bias. Some more so than others. There is no magic wall separating Sub-Saharan Africa from the rest of Africa. And there has always been normal intra-continental interaction between groups in Africa just as on every other continent.

Thank you very much for your response and everyone else