[Olphander]

Just just came out today. The scores for the White kids are not that grand, either. What do you think is up? Bad teachers, poor parenting, social enviornment not conducive towards education, a combination of things?

A new report has found that black boys lag behind their white counterparts in reading and math to an even greater extent than previously thought. The sponsor of the report -- the Council of the Great City Schools, an advocacy group for urban public schools -- calls the findings as "jaw-dropping."

The study concluded that the school performance gap between black boys and white boys couldn't be chalked up to poverty alone. That could provide ammunition to those who argue that cultural factors, as opposed to economic forces, explain low educational performance among African-Americans.

The study found that just 12 percent of black fourth-grade boys are proficient in reading, compared with 38 percent of white boys, the New York Times reports. Only 12 percent of black eighth-grade boys are proficient in math, compared with 44 percent of white boys.

The report also says that black boys drop out of high school at nearly twice the rate of white boys, and have SAT scores that are 104 points lower, on average.


Poverty isn't the sole explanation for the differences. The report found that poor white boys do as well at reading and math as non-poor black boys. That will give a boost to those who argue for the need to look at differences in culture and child-rearing techniques. That "culture of poverty" approach, championed by the late New York Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan, has long been treated gingerly, out of concern that emphasizing cultural differences could be perceived as a form of racism. But it has been making a comeback of late.

"There's accumulating evidence that there are racial differences in what kids experience before the first day of kindergarten," Ronald Ferguson, a Harvard University scholar who focuses on the racial achievement gap, told the Times. "They have to do with a lot of sociological and historical forces. In order to address those, we have to be able to have conversations that people are unwilling to have."

Ferguson added that those conversations should include "the activities that parents conduct with their 2-, 3- and 4-year-olds. How much we talk to them, the ways we talk to them, the ways we enforce discipline, the ways we encourage them to think and develop a sense of autonomy."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot...adly-in-school

[LindaSmithIV]

That could provide ammunition to those who argue that cultural factors, as opposed to economic forces, explain low educational performance among African-Americans. I thought the bogeyman in these discussions was genetic factors, not cultural ones?

[twiffatticy]

I thought the bogeyman in these discussions was genetic factors, not cultural ones?

That's the third camp that gets people in major trouble and so not so openly discussed.

[TimEricsson]

I thought the bogeyman in these discussions was genetic factors, not cultural ones?

Ever since I went to school in Ohio I realized that there is nothing Genetic to it. The Students from the Appalachian region of the US are white and lag significantly behind their white non-appalachian counterparts in Math and reading, on par with other minorities. This is entirely cultural, and is linked to poverty. Appalachian culture places an emphasis on being literate, math does not hold the same type of social reward as reading does.

I suspect that it is the same in some black cultures, where some that are poor have an economic disincentive to perform in Math and reading, then on top of that there is a cultural element that does not reward achievement in Math and Reading.

It strikes me as odd that white Appalachians are never added to the equation when race and intelligence are discussed.

[GoodLover]

Ever since I went to school in Ohio I realized that there is nothing Genetic to it. The Students from the Appalachian region of the US are white and lag significantly behind their white non-appalachian counterparts in Math and reading, on par with other minorities. This is entirely cultural, and is linked to poverty. Appalachian culture places an emphasis on being literate, math does not hold the same type of social reward as reading does.

I suspect that it is the same in some black cultures, where some that are poor have an economic disincentive to perform in Math and reading, then on top of that there is a cultural element that does not reward achievement in Math and Reading.

It strikes me as odd that white Appalachians are never added to the equation when race and intelligence are discussed.

I don't necessarily think it's genetic but my question was more so pertaining to the suggested demonetization of the "cultural" theory when I thought that feeling was more so reserved for the "genetic" theory.

I posted a link to another forum in a similar thread to this one some time ago which has the first 51 pages of The Black-White Test Score Gap (Washington DC: Brookings Institution, 1998). This study supports the cultural theory (not just poverty).

Here's the link to the aforementioned forum which also has the link to the first 51 one pages of the study (I link the forum and not just the study because I believe Frank Sweet gives a concise summary of the findings):

http://thestudyofracialism.org/viewt...it=Black+White

[Seiblybiozy]

He look, more fuel for the fire that blacks are inherently shit.

[bloriMal]

He look, more fuel for the fire that blacks are inherently shit.

Not at all, culture can be changed. No one has so far claimed in this thread or the material posted that it's genetic.

[lipitrRrxX]

Ever since I went to school in Ohio I realized that there is nothing Genetic to it. The Students from the Appalachian region of the US are white and lag significantly behind their white non-appalachian counterparts in Math and reading, on par with other minorities. This is entirely cultural, and is linked to poverty. Appalachian culture places an emphasis on being literate, math does not hold the same type of social reward as reading does.

Ditto, my own math scores confirmed this, I was well two years behind in my math, and still struggle while I excelled at things like reading, history, art, etc....

In the mountains the only math you need to know really is how to count head of cattle, count stock, etc.. Things that can be done with a calculator or simple tally.

Back in the day there was special currency printed with certain artworks and literary icons which was to be distributed throughout the mountains.

I suspect that it is the same in some black cultures, where some that are poor have an economic disincentive to perform in Math and reading, then on top of that there is a cultural element that does not reward achievement in Math and Reading. Possibly, though I do know a black kid in one of my classes at uni. who is a math wizard, going to be a math teacher eventually.