[swissloveone]

First of all, i just want to emphasize that this thread is not meant to elicit any provocation against Somalis of this forum, it is only meant to determine if my own stereotypical observation of the different clans of Somalis is also consistent with how different Somalis clans perceive each other.

Darood

Darood seems to show a tendency of arrogance and a paternalistic attitude toward other clans of Somalia, and they perceive them selves as the Alpha-Omega and king makers of the country. furthermore, they consider people from the Hawiye clan in particular as hillbilly while they see them selves as sophisticated and street smart city people. An acquaintance of mine who hails from the darood clan for instance, told me jokingly that in Bosaso, the locals don't do nothing but chewing chat and relaxing while hard and manual labor is done by Hawiye, he even took his own mother as an example and boastfully, he claimed she has 2 hawiye house maid to maintain her needs.


Isaac

Most of the Somalis i know hails from the Isaac and i get along with them very well. During the course of our discussion in reference to the somali people in general , they label people south of Somaliland as Dangerous and unpredictable and the same time, they admire the same people as risk takers and bold. a Half Yemeni and Half Somali once told, among the somali clan, isaac are very trustworthy and they understand a deal is a deal regardless how you flip flap it while other somalis try to change the rule of the game after the deal which eventually ends with either physical or verbal confrontation. On the down side, according to him, The isaac are very liberal, once they arrive in the west, they try to act and behave more Europeans than the Europeans themselves.

Hawiye

Very conservative, and above the surface, they try to project themselves as God fearing and religious people. a feeling of victimization among the hawiye toward their Northern kinship in particular Darood is evident.

Dir

I have encountered 3 Dir Somalis in my life and all of them seem to be Ethiopia's lackey or spokes persons of the ministry of propaganda of Ethiopia.

[Buincchotourb]

First of all, i just want to emphasize that this thread is not meant to elicit any provocation against Somalis of this forum, it is only meant to determine if my own stereotypical observation of the different clans of Somalis is also consistent with how different Somalis clans perceive each other.

Darood

Darood seems to show a tendency of arrogance and a paternalistic attitude toward other clans of Somalia, and they perceive them selves as the Alpha-Omega and king makers of the country. furthermore, they consider people from the Hawiye clan in particular as hillbilly while they see them selves as sophisticated and street smart city people. An acquaintance of mine who hails from the darood clan for instance, told me jokingly that in Bosaso, the locals don't do nothing but chewing chat and relaxing while hard and manual labor is done by Hawiye, he even took his own mother as an example and boastfully, he claimed she has 2 hawiye house maid to maintain her needs.


Isaac

Most of the Somalis i know hails from the Isaac and i get along with them very well. During the course of our discussion in reference to the somali people in general , they label people south of Somaliland as Dangerous and unpredictable and the same time, they admire the same people as risk takers and bold. a Half Yemeni and Half Somali once told, among the somali clan, isaac are very trustworthy and they understand a deal is a deal regardless how you flip flap it while other somalis try to change the rule of the game after the deal which eventually ends with either physical or verbal confrontation. On the down side, according to him, The isaac are very liberal, once they arrive in the west, they try to act and behave more Europeans than the Europeans themselves.

Hawiye

Very conservative, and above the surface, they try to project themselves as God fearing and religious people. a feeling of victimization among the hawiye toward their Northern kinship in particular Darood is evident.

Dir

I have encountered 3 Dir Somalis in my life and all of them seem to be Ethiopia's lackey or spokes persons of the ministry of propaganda of Ethiopia.

Good post and you are close to what i observed as well. By the way do you mean dir as in issa???Because dir would be the larger classification of issa and issac together.

[egexgfczc]

Good observation overall Ferej, however there are some corrections to be made.

1) Darod is too big, all though they always show solidaity to each other (unlike Hawiye that compete on decimating each other) they still are divided in three political camps these are.
Ogaden (the hillbilies of Darod and are percieved by other darod as not that intelligent), Harti ( usually the source of arrogance among the Darods and think they are the center and rightfull rulers of all somali territory) and lastly Marehan ( very wild, these are from the south and are in ways more like hawiye than they are other darods) And then we have the miscellenious darods like Awrtable and Lelkase etc. These live with harti, are from North East and are part of the Harti camp, politically they are insignificant.

2) You mentioned that issaq are trustworthy, which is incorrect! Never say that infront of any somali of any clan including issaq themselves, they will laugh and see you as a comedian. Isaaq are the least loyal and trustworthy people, very snake like, but not the cunning type of snake rather the snake that always gets exposed and busted before attacking its pray. Issaq usually think they are ahead but are in reality always behind everyone. whenever the issaq get an idea they always get the wrong idea. Issaq are like the retard cousins of the jews, the combination of being trecherous but not sophisticated and cunning have shown to be a disasterous cocktail for the issaqs and have resulted in complete failure in absolutly all issaq projects to date. in all their known history they've been stuck in a limbo state, this because they are very persistant and stubborn at implementing the wrong ideas. The british outmanouvered the issaqs and their land in only two days.

3) You say that hawiye are very conservative which is incorrect, hawiye are no where conservative, hawiye are easily shaped and adapt with speed light to everything that is catastrophy, they are very loyal but have no plan and always navigate without a compass, they invented the word disorder. They move up and down, right and left, live by the day and shoot at all directions from the knees, there is no power in this world that can lead and talk sense to hawiye. This clan is a complete mess, somalia today is a mirror image of the hawiye mentality.

4) The rahanweyn are the victim clan of somalia, they work hard and want no beef with anything. But are being unfortunatly bossed around by everyone. The only thing the rahanweyn want is just peace they don't care who is in charge, they claim nothing, they sit on no one, they don't care who sits on them, they neither have superiority or inferiority complex, they hate poliitics and have no opinion, they just exist and want to continue existing without confronting anyone. They are like the Oromos of Ethiopia with the difference of being caught up in a crazy storm. Had the Rahanweyns been the bulk of the somali population then no doubt somalia would have been one of the most prosperous and peacefull country in Africa. The only workforce somali has is the rahanweyn and the somali bantu, the rest of the clans are nomads who are in nature allergic to work.

Those are the basics of somali clan mentality and behaviour i've observed, your overall observations were good and i agree.

[AlexBolduin]

Lool at the observation.

Darood is the dominant clan of the Somali ethnicity, its so large that each sub clan within has its own legacy within the Somali state and history in the land and inhabit different geographical terrains basically its not a monolithic group.
they can range and pretty much cover all spectrums of behavious of the Somali people. Your wrong by saying that it views itself dominant and as if the clan as a whole is the same time considering each sub clan has different experiences in regard to livelihood.
The sub clans are as follows
Ogaden basically inhabits the occupied regions in Kenya and Ethiopia and to a fair extent their also significant in the deep South of Somalia. They are the largest clan by number and their significance with Somali state history is mostly non existant.
Another example of this is The Somali dictator was actually of Marehan sub clan of Darood which, the dictator was heavily biased towards his clan during the rebellion days and persecuted another sub clan whose members attempted a coup.
The Harti which is a sub clan of the Darood can also be broken down into a larger sub clan, Majeerteen and two others which i wont mention.
The Majeerteen are one of the more successfull Somali clans, The clan has produced two presidents and three prime ministers since 1960, as well as a Sultan and a King (Boqor). Majeerteens also held many other important government posts in the 1960s and early 1970s, and continue to play a key role in Puntland and TFG. They are typically the more generic type of Somali.

^^^
Where did you get the idea that Isaac are cunning, could it be because of its people are in the forefront at the idea of seccession?

Ferej@ You are way off at your perception of the Hawiye.

[BluewayAllere]

Lool at the observation.

Darood is the dominant clan of the Somali ethnicity, its so large that each sub clan within has its own legacy within the Somali state and history in the land and inhabit different geographical terrains basically its not a monolithic group.
they can range and pretty much cover all spectrums of behavious of the Somali people. Your wrong by saying that it views itself dominant and as if the clan as a whole is the same time considering each sub clan has different experiences in regard to livelihood.
The sub clans are as follows
Ogaden basically inhabits the occupied regions in Kenya and Ethiopia and to a fair extent their also significant in the deep South of Somalia. They are the largest clan by number and their significance with Somali state history is mostly non existant.
Another example of this is The Somali dictator was actually of Marehan sub clan of Darood which, the dictator was heavily biased towards his clan during the rebellion days and persecuted another sub clan whose members attempted a coup.
The Harti which is a sub clan of the Darood can also be broken down into a larger sub clan, Majeerteen and two others which i wont mention.
The Majeerteen are one of the more successfull Somali clans, The clan has produced two presidents and three prime ministers since 1960, as well as a Sultan and a King (Boqor). Majeerteens also held many other important government posts in the 1960s and early 1970s, and continue to play a key role in Puntland and TFG. They are typically the more generic type of Somali.

^^^
Where did you get the idea that Isaac are cunning, could it be because of its people are in the forefront at the idea of seccession?

Ferej@ You are way off at your perception of the Hawiye.

I would presume you are a darood.lol

---------- Post added 2010-07-24 at 14:46 ----------

Good observation overall Ferej, however there are some corrections to be made.

1) Darod is too big, all though they always show solidaity to each other (unlike Hawiye that compete on decimating each other) they still are divided in three political camps these are.
Ogaden (the hillbilies of Darod and are percieved by other darod as not that intelligent), Harti ( usually the source of arrogance among the Darods and think they are the center and rightfull rulers of all somali territory) and lastly Marehan ( very wild, these are from the south and are in ways more like hawiye than they are other darods) And then we have the miscellenious darods like Awrtable and Lelkase etc. These live with harti, are from North East and are part of the Harti camp, politically they are insignificant.

2) You mentioned that issaq are trustworthy, which is incorrect! Never say that infront of any somali of any clan including issaq themselves, they will laugh and see you as a comedian. Isaaq are the least loyal and trustworthy people, very snake like, but not the cunning type of snake rather the snake that always gets exposed and busted before attacking its pray. Issaq usually think they are ahead but are in reality always behind everyone. whenever the issaq get an idea they always get the wrong idea. Issaq are like the retard cousins of the jews, the combination of being trecherous but not sophisticated and cunning have shown to be a disasterous cocktail for the issaqs and have resulted in complete failure in absolutly all issaq projects to date. in all their known history they've been stuck in a limbo state, this because they are very persistant and stubborn at implementing the wrong ideas. The british outmanouvered the issaqs and their land in only two days.

3) You say that hawiye are very conservative which is incorrect, hawiye are no where conservative, hawiye are easily shaped and adapt with speed light to everything that is catastrophy, they are very loyal but have no plan and always navigate without a compass, they invented the word disorder. They move up and down, right and left, live by the day and shoot at all directions from the knees, there is no power in this world that can lead and talk sense to hawiye. This clan is a complete mess, somalia today is a mirror image of the hawiye mentality.

4) The rahanweyn are the victim clan of somalia, they work hard and want no beef with anything. But are being unfortunatly bossed around by everyone. The only thing the rahanweyn want is just peace they don't care who is in charge, they claim nothing, they sit on no one, they don't care who sits on them, they neither have superiority or inferiority complex, they hate poliitics and have no opinion, they just exist and want to continue existing without confronting anyone. They are like the Oromos of Ethiopia with the difference of being caught up in a crazy storm. Had the Rahanweyns been the bulk of the somali population then no doubt somalia would have been one of the most prosperous and peacefull country in Africa. The only workforce somali has is the rahanweyn and the somali bantu, the rest of the clans are nomads who are in nature allergic to work.

Those are the basics of somali clan mentality and behaviour i've observed, your overall observations were good and i agree.

I agree on the rahanweyn..i have a friend who is from that tribe and sometimes i wonder is he that peaceful and kind or is it a cover up...Too kind and loving people to be living in somalia.

[amelveEnromma]

Most Somali clans aren't even real, just a lame way to divide a +80% E1b1b1a1b population.

[MaickiP]

These are the real stereotypes of various Somali clans

1) Daarood:

Very large and diverse confederation of sub-clans. Most important being the Harti confederation, with the Majerteen being the most important sub-clan within the Harti.

The Majerteen (MJ)are known as having delusions of grandeur and superiority complexes...as if they are the rightful rulers of all of Somalia. Their delusions know no bounds, which is why they meddle in Mogadishu and southern affairs when the majority of them live in Puntland. They seem to be overachievers, and try to max out whatever they do...if they are religious, they are radical Al Qaeda types...when they arent religious, they go the other extreme like the cunt Ayaan Xirsi Ali, and the supermodel who married the fag David Bowie. They like to manipulate the other Harti sub clans, like the Dhulbahanta and Warsangeli

Dhulbahanta/Warsangeli...pawns of the Majerteen who exploit their Harti brethren, except the ones who are pawns of Somaliland. Somaliland so far Pro-Somaliland camp’s political and military visibility is based on the support it gets from Somaliland. The people in areas under Somaliland coexist peacefully. Pro-Somaliland Dhulbahanta/Warsangeli forces are more disciplined than Puntland forces so far. People complain about the system not those they indentify as locals working with Somaliland if things go wrong.

Historically, the Dhulbahanta were known for their military prowess (the majority of the Mad Mullah's forces were from the Dhulbahanta and Ogaden), and zeal, aswell as the civilized Warsangeli Sultanates in the Northeast of Somalia.

The Ogaden Poor (even by Somali stnadards), backward, super-religous and pious (alot of religous scholars were/are Ogaden) and very 'country'. This is what happens to a people oppressed by a very corrupt and anti-Somali Ethiopian regime. The Ogaden have suffered so much under the Ethiopian yoke, yet have maintained their dignity and identity very well. They are quite numerous.

The Mareexaan... These people are from the depths of southern Somalia/Kenya, and are completely alien to mainstream Somali. Siad Barre was a Mareexaan, and his 2 decade dictatorship completely nepotized Mareexans, so that you'd here about former truck drivers and camel herders becoming ambassadors and foreign diplomats. They are quite backward, even by Somali standards and very nomadic.

2) Isaaq

Historically the most liberal and open minded of Somalis. The orphans of the Queen, as they like to say...the British immediately identified the Isaaq as the most reasonable Somalis to do treaties with, and the relative calm and prosperity in the secessionist self declared repucblic of Somaliland is proof of this. Isaaqs are well known for their business acumen and cunning, as well as their poetic/literary/artistic skills. The best Somali artists were Isaaq. If there is one bad stereotype that the Isaaq have is that they are known as khat addicted. Most Somalis are envious or hateful of the Isaaq and have tried to sabotage Somaliland's aspirations solely out of tribalist sentiment

3) The Dir

The Issa...the Issa of Djibouti are backward, poor, and few in numbers. Little Issa live outside Djibouti, most share more in common to their Afar neighbours than other Somalis. They were historically known to be fierce warriors, and had the tendency to file their teeth to sharp points to give them intimidating looks. They tend to be very black skinned due to living in one of the hottest places on Earth

The Gadabursi ... small inconsquential clan that are the pawn of Somaliland. They dont like Isaaq, but are willing to be under their protection, since the alternatives are worse. The former president of Somaliland, Riyaale, was Gadabursi.

...will continue soon

[barsikjal]

These are the real stereotypes of various Somali clans

1) Daarood:

Very large and diverse confederation of sub-clans. Most important being the Harti confederation, with the Majerteen being the most important sub-clan within the Harti.

The Majerteen (MJ)are known as having delusions of grandeur and superiority complexes...as if they are the rightful rulers of all of Somalia. Their delusions know no bounds, which is why they meddle in Mogadishu and southern affairs when the majority of them live in Puntland. They seem to be overachievers, and try to max out whatever they do...if they are religious, they are radical Al Qaeda types...when they arent religious, they go the other extreme like the cunt Ayaan Xirsi Ali, and the supermodel who married the fag David Bowie. They like to manipulate the other Harti sub clans, like the Dhulbahanta and Warsangeli

Dhulbahanta/Warsangeli...pawns of the Majerteen who exploit their Harti brethren, except the ones who are pawns of Somaliland. Somaliland so far Pro-Somaliland camp’s political and military visibility is based on the support it gets from Somaliland. The people in areas under Somaliland coexist peacefully. Pro-Somaliland Dhulbahanta/Warsangeli forces are more disciplined than Puntland forces so far. People complain about the system not those they indentify as locals working with Somaliland if things go wrong.

Historically, the Dhulbahanta were known for their military prowess (the majority of the Mad Mullah's forces were from the Dhulbahanta and Ogaden), and zeal, aswell as the civilized Warsangeli Sultanates in the Northeast of Somalia.

The Ogaden Poor (even by Somali stnadards), backward, super-religous and pious (alot of religous scholars were/are Ogaden) and very 'country'. This is what happens to a people oppressed by a very corrupt and anti-Somali Ethiopian regime. The Ogaden have suffered so much under the Ethiopian yoke, yet have maintained their dignity and identity very well. They are quite numerous.

The Mareexaan... These people are from the depths of southern Somalia/Kenya, and are completely alien to mainstream Somali. Siad Barre was a Mareexaan, and his 2 decade dictatorship completely nepotized Mareexans, so that you'd here about former truck drivers and camel herders becoming ambassadors and foreign diplomats. They are quite backward, even by Somali standards and very nomadic.

2) Isaaq

Historically the most liberal and open minded of Somalis. The orphans of the Queen, as they like to say...the British immediately identified the Isaaq as the most reasonable Somalis to do treaties with, and the relative calm and prosperity in the secessionist self declared repucblic of Somaliland is proof of this. Isaaqs are well known for their business acumen and cunning, as well as their poetic/literary/artistic skills. The best Somali artists were Isaaq. If there is one bad stereotype that the Isaaq have is that they are known as khat addicted. Most Somalis are envious or hateful of the Isaaq and have tried to sabotage Somaliland's aspirations solely out of tribalist sentiment

3) The Dir

The Issa...the Issa of Djibouti are backward, poor, and few in numbers. Little Issa live outside Djibouti, most share more in common to their Afar neighbours than other Somalis. They were historically known to be fierce warriors, and had the tendency to file their teeth to sharp points to give them intimidating looks. They tend to be very black skinned due to living in one of the hottest places on Earth

The Gadabursi ... small inconsquential clan that are the pawn of Somaliland. They dont like Isaaq, but are willing to be under their protection, since the alternatives are worse. The former president of Somaliland, Riyaale, was Gadabursi.

...will continue soon

lol...this reads like something of a lord of the rings legendarium. the isaaq are the superior cultured high elves, the majerteen/warsangeli being the powerhungry egotistical humans, the ogaden being the brutish orcs, etc

[HedoShoodovex]

Interesting posts, while each posters has their own take on the stereotypes, they all share at least some commonality like the Daroods.

[dXI9XFOA]

lol...this reads like something of a lord of the rings legendarium. the isaaq are the superior cultured high elves, the majerteen/warsangeli being the powerhungry egotistical humans, the ogaden being the brutish orcs, etc

I'm not done...the true orcs would be the next clan in question:

4 The Hawiye: They are numerous...almost like a horde. Nobody knows their true numbers, but I'm willing to wager they, and not the daarood, are the most numerous Somali clan. Their territory starts from a region called Galmudug (where Excel is currently chilling) all the way south towards the Kenyan border and beyond. They are extremely war like, and have been in non stop civil war since the collapse of the central gov't in 1991. They are extremely 'borg' like, and have a very collectivist mindset, thus loyal to their warlords. If their warlords decide to turn into fundamentalism, they become avowed islamists...They are headstrong and have recently turned to fundamentalism as further fuel to their volatility. A particular sub clan of the Hawiye are especially notrious for their violent ways. Recently some of the have shown some superficial to the weak, powerless and meandering federal government. Our resident Hawiye, Excel is one of these pro-TFG types, but I can tell it's only because of the Hawiye leadership, since Excel was avowdly anti-TFG when Abdulaahi Yusuf was in chare. The poster Excel is a typical Hawiye:

The Habr Gedir These Hawiyes are more similar to other aforementioned Somalis, as in, historically they have been camel herding pastoralists with a constant desire to find new pasture/grazing land for their livestock. They were responsible for the notorious "Black Hawk Down" incident where Americans under the foolish premise of capturing the Habr Gedir warlord "Aideed", got shot at in the middle of downtown Mogadishu and exposed to thousands of the most dangerous and war like people on Earth. Mogadishu North of the 'green line' is their turf, and is a no go zone to any non Habr Gedir. Alot of Islamist elements currently there...and they are at constant warfare with their Hawiye rivals, the Abgaal:

The Abgaal: Not as war like as the Habr Gedir...originally settled farmers, relatively humble and backward people. They still display the Hawiye tendencies of borg like collectivism. The Abgaal speak in a dialect not easily discernable to northern Somalis, unlike the Habr Gedir.

to be continued...

---------- Post added 2010-09-08 at 11:24 ----------

5) The Rahanweyne

Like the others mentioned...these are a peaceful people, victims of the extreme Hawiye and Daarood induced violence in Southern Somalia. They are not nomads, but peasant and subsistence farmers...their clan structure is not wholly patriarchial like other Somalis, but is a mixture of lineage + adopting minority and occupational groups into a greater "Rahanweyne" sub clan. They speak Af-maay, a distinct language completely unrecognizable from Af-soomaali. Bantu and Oromo admixture may have been present, and historically alot of the rahanweyne were basically serfs to Somali landlords. They also had Bantu slaves. They suffered immense hardships during the famines of the early 90s, to add on top of the warfare imposed on them.

The Non Somali minority groups as well as unaffiliated (ie clans not part of the aforementioned ones) Somalis:

1) The Sheekhal: Insignificant...religious/pious people. Many Sufi saints were Sheekhal
2) The Ashraaf: Claim descent from Prophet Mohammed, ie syyeds...speak Af Maay. Heavily admixed with Arab, Bantu, Persian and others
3) The Barwaani/Rer Xamar...the aboriginal people of Mogadishu and the Benaadir coast before the inland Somali nomads invaded in the 1300s. Heavily admixed and predominately Caucasoid. Almost extinct and/or have fled Somalia for overseas.
4) The Tuuni: Swahili speaking folk...insignificant
5) The Bantu: Brought as slaves in the 1600s...subsistence farmers...insnificant and oppressed...majority left Somalia, probably fewer than 5,000 left
6) The Garre... A very wild Eastern lowland Cushitic people who live on the border regions of Somalia/Ethiopia/Kenya. Only nominally Muslim and still maintain many pre-Islamic cultural traits. Speak Af Garre, a distinct language unintelligible to most Somalis.
7) Arabs, Ethiopians, etc: Insignificant
8) The occupational castes: Tuumaal, Midgaan, and Yibir. The Tuumaal are a Somali lowcaste identified by their occupations as silversmiths and leather workers. They live all over Somalia but are extremely few in numbers and most Somalis rarely encounter one thesedays. I have personally never met one myself, and dont really know if they still exist.
The Midgaan are a more numerous caste, reducing to inferior status apparently because their patriarch was caught eating carrion (non-halaal food) thus forever condemning his progeny to low status. The Yibir were known to be experts at witchcraft and the 'il' (evil eye). When a newborn Somali was birthed to a noble Somali family, the yibir would come by seeking some kind of payment so that they do not curse the new born child, basically a sort of Somali blackmail. I dont know if they still exist, but if they do, people rarely pay attention nor do they figure historically.
9) The Degodia... live mostly in Kenya, and have some affinities with the Hawiye, or perhaps even be a sub clan of the Hawiye. They wreak havoc on the Nilotic Samburu, Turkana, aswell as the Cushitic Borana and Rendille. They speak a very classic and proper Somali, hinting to their recent arrival that far south. They are known to Kenyans collectively (as are all Somalis of the Northern Frontier District) as: The Shifta...dangerous bandits that specialize in highway robbery and ambushes. They were responsible for almost completely poaching to extinction the elephant population of Kenya during the 80s.

[SetSnonejog]

Lol, this shit reads like a Civilopedia or something.

[MasdMnPa]

Lol, this shit reads like a Civilopedia or something.

We need someone to write one for Ethiopia.

[Xxmlqevq]

Slick,

Bantus are not less than 5,000

They are the biggest minority group, at least 300,000 of them some estimates go even as high as 900,000.

[Lt_Apple]

Slick,

Bantus are not less than 5,000

They are the biggest minority group, at least 300,000 of them some estimates go even as high as 900,000.

I'm guessing that due to the clannish nature of Somalia in general, they too stick to their own? Or do they also engage in any wars/battles?
Do these Bantus have any sense of a Somali national identity, like for example do they call themselves Somali when they immigrate to other lands?

[Herimoisige]

Slick,

Bantus are not less than 5,000

They are the biggest minority group, at least 300,000 of them some estimates go even as high as 900,000.

AFAIK the majority of bantus now reside in Daadaab refugee camp, which is in Kenya. I really would find it surprising to have that many Bantus still residing in anarchic Somalia, they'd be too vulnerable to alot of dangers

---------- Post added 2010-09-08 at 12:05 ----------

I'm guessing that due to the clannish nature of Somalia in general, they too stick to their own? Or do they also engage in any wars/battles?
Do these Bantus have any sense of a Somali national identity, like for example do they call themselves Somali when they immigrate to other lands?

AFAIK, no...they have a distinct ethnic identity. Somalis have derogatory terms to name them (which is not uncommon a phenomona in the Horn for minority groups to experience). They refer to themselves by the collective Niger-Congo term of "Mushungulu".

They may have been some slight Somali nationalism among the Bantu during independence to the 1980s...but subsequent events have hardened them to completely disassociate themselves from Somalis, especially when overseas. Completely understandable.

[sisimelanyk]

I'm guessing that due to the clannish nature of Somalia in general, they too stick to their own? Or do they also engage in any wars/battles?
Do these Bantus have any sense of a Somali national identity, like for example do they call themselves Somali when they immigrate to other lands?

They do stick to their own as they are mainly farmers while most Somalis were historically nomads. There are some agricultural native groups who speak a separate language called Af-Maay which they have close ties with. Some of them still speak Bantu languages such as Mushunguli (some kind of Tanzanian dialect) but most speak Af-Maay (Cushitic). They don't see themselves as Somali, I even met one who was complaining about the name of the country, lol.

AFAIK the majority of bantus now reside in Daadaab refugee camp, which is in Kenya. I really would find it surprising to have that many Bantus still residing in anarchic Somalia, they'd be too vulnerable to alot of dangers

Not true, most still live in the Shebella river valley (the breadbasket of Somalia). They are a dominant group in that area, you are making it seem like they are some kind of vulnerable group, they are not. They have close ties with the Maay speakers in that region and whenever something happens they join each other to fight their enemies (usually Habar Gedir Hawiyes).

It's because your family is from Hargeisa you know so little about them.

[ñàéäèíã]

There are quite a few Somali Bantus in Somalia. Especially Hiiran region and near Ksimaayo and Xamar.





Watch these videos

[apatteopipt]

So, which are you, slick?

[Cofeeman]

I'm a "Habr Awal" Isaaq...the most prominent and powerful sub clan within the Isaaq. The Habr Awal are well known for their business acumen and are the most urbanized Isaaq sub clan (They inhabit Somaliland's capital and Somalia's largest city after Mogadishu...Hargeisa.

The other Isaaq sub clans are:

The Garxajis (Who consist of the Habr Younis and Iidagalle): The 2nd most prominent Isaaq sub clan...historically, they were the first Somalis to come into contact with the British, and have formed treaties with them well before anyone else in the Horn.

The Habr Jeclo aka "Habr Habsuhed" since they are descendants of Isaaq's Ethiopian wife.: they inhabit the eastern fringes of Somaliland, and mingle with the Daarod, and are seen by fellow Isaaq as the 'frontline' against those Daarood antagonists. They are extremely nomadic and are kinda backwards (by Isaaq standards, still pretty enlightened by Somali standards) the current president of Somaliland, "Silanyo" hails from this clan.

BTW: As clannish as Somalis are, the Habr Jeclo and Garxajis reglarly intermarry with Dhlbahanta and Warsangeli Daarods.

The Arap (not to confuse with Arab) a minor inconsequential Isaaq clan

The Ayoub another minor and inconsequential Isaaq sub clan

Heres a perfect image showing the various branches of the Isaaq family:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_a3CnRIn5GR...-7%2Bisaaq.gif

[Hmwmzian]

Nice thread.